Ulfics letter to Highrock?

[Lachdonin]

Michael Kirkbride confirmed that Lorkhan and Akatosh are the same god some time ago, creating the general idea over on the Beth forums that they are a 2 headed dragon, one the face of Men, the other the face of Mer. The concept is deliberately confusing and bordering on impossible, mind you... Then to complicate things even more you have the fact that, with the death of the Et'ada who were the Divines, and their 'rebirth' as creatures of worship, you have highly varied beliefs about them,creating multiple god-forms, all of which are different but inseparable. This can be seen in the cause of the Allessian Dragonbreak, when some priests tried to exercise Aurie-El from Akatosh, not realizing that they were the same thing viewed from different perspectives.

 

The genocide thing is one of those tricky problems, even in our world. In the Elder Scrolls, attempts of genocide have been carried out rather frequently, against the Orcs, the Argonians, the Sload, the Dragons, the Akiviri and so on. I think it's safe to say that the concept doesn't even really exist in Tamriel, or at least no one cares so long as they are not on the receiving end. The Nords do have a rather common penchant for trying to exterminate other races though. First the Snow Elves, then the Chimer and Dwemer, the Aelyed and the Reachmen...

[BloodrendX001]

Michael Kirkbride confirmed that Lorkhan and Akatosh are the same god some time ago, creating the general idea over on the Beth forums that they are a 2 headed dragon, one the face of Men, the other the face of Mer. The concept is deliberately confusing and bordering on impossible, mind you... Then to complicate things even more you have the fact that, with the death of the Et'ada who were the Divines, and their 'rebirth' as creatures of worship, you have highly varied beliefs about them,creating multiple god-forms, all of which are different but inseparable. This can be seen in the cause of the Allessian Dragonbreak, when some priests tried to exercise Aurie-El from Akatosh, not realizing that they were the same thing viewed from different perspectives.

 

The genocide thing is one of those tricky problems, even in our world. In the Elder Scrolls, attempts of genocide have been carried out rather frequently, against the Orcs, the Argonians, the Sload, the Dragons, the Akiviri and so on. I think it's safe to say that the concept doesn't even really exist in Tamriel, or at least no one cares so long as they are not on the receiving end. The Nords do have a rather common penchant for trying to exterminate other races though. First the Snow Elves, then the Chimer and Dwemer, the Aelyed and the Reachmen...

 

Marukh..... Damn monkey priest. XD Ah, but I can definitely see the link between Lorkhan and Akatosh, being opposites as they are. Though I always envisioned Akatosh and Auriel as the "two heads" of the good ol' time dragon, but it's whatever MK says it is. Which has a penchant for being confusing.

[Lehcar]

I think Ulfric only pretended to co-operate with the Thalmor... after all, the way he speaks of them is pretty acidic and loathing. I think he was playing double agent.

[Lachdonin]

I think Ulfric only pretended to co-operate with the Thalmor... after all, the way he speaks of them is pretty acidic and loathing. I think he was playing double agent.

 

I speak about my employer with pretty acidic language on a daily basis. Doesn't stop me from willingly going to work 5 days a week, and i'm not TRYING to convince everyone i hate them just to be popular.

[MidbossVyers]

Except you can't stick an axe into your employer's skull without suffering legal repercussions. Ulfric kills any Thalmor agent after he takes over a given hold, such as Ondolemar in Markarth.

[fifteenspades]

My opinion is that Ulfric AND Tullius are both Thalmor puppets. The Elves use Tullius to enforce their laws, which they write as they please with no desire to explain themselves...

 

And honestly, they're a bit hypocritical. They ban the worship of Talos because he was once a man, and yet if you read into Elven mythology, Auri-El (otherwise known as Akatosh) was once an Elf who ascended to godhood.

 

As for Ulfric...the Thalmor would LOVE to see the Empire fall apart, and that's exactly what would happen if Ulfric were to claim the throne of Skyrim.

 

Basically, the Thalmor win no matter who wins the Civil War. If the Empire wins, they can continue manipulating the human races to do their will. If the Stormcloaks win, the Empire begins to crumble, and the Thalmor can work on completely eradicating or enslaving men as they see fit.

 

The Civil war is like a little fly that won't buzz off to the empire.

You have to understand this "War" is the entire stormcloak army/militia fighting a very small fraction of the empire's forces. They have bigger concerns like the Thalmor. If the empire really wanted to end this war they could in an instant, but it would cost too much manpower/$

 

And it's been stated already but the Empire didn't really ever try and enforce the ban on talos, they just let people do what they wanted too. It's only when Ulfric started his rebellion that the Thalmor are like Yes... yes we will come to skyrim and make sure you don't worship talos.

 

As for the Bretons support. Idk some Bretons would probably not even bother with Ulfric because of Reach, but some Bretons in game don't even think of the Forsword as Bretons. So yeh idk which way they would go.

 

What i don't understand is what did Ulfric think would happen if he won? He would have to face an entire Thalmor Nation all by him lonesome self. A Nation that even the Empire with all its might, strength and resources and even had the help of the Nords of Skyrim couldn't beat. Yet Ulfric expected to be able to defend Skyrim against that when he could barley beat a small fraction of the empire?

[Rennn]

 

What i don't understand is what did Ulfric think would happen if he won? He would have to face an entire Thalmor Nation all by him lonesome self. A Nation that even the Empire with all its might, strength and resources and even had the help of the Nords of Skyrim couldn't beat. Yet Ulfric expected to be able to defend Skyrim against that when he could barley beat a small fraction of the empire?

 

Actually, if Ulfric was to kick out the Empire, then all of Skyrim would be unified against the Aldmeri Dominion, not just his Stormcloaks. Skyrim, at this point in lore, is possibly the strongest human force. It's referenced throughout the game that Skyrim is the single strongest part of the Empire remaining after the war with the Thalmor. Argonians and the Aldmeri Dominion have them beat in raw military strength, ofc, but to invade you've historically needed 3X the numbers of the defenders. Ulfric could lead a successful defense of Skyrim if it was united, provided he never tried to invade the Aldmeri Dominion's holdings outside Skyrim.

 

Ofc, Ulfric is also a bit cracked. He seems to have such a hatred of the Thalmor that he's willing to risk all of Skyrim just to see them bleed. This is probably because he was tortured and semi-brainwashed in the past. Of course, this makes him fight against the Empire as well, which is exactly the kind of Civil War the Thalmor wants to weaken both its enemies.

 

I couldn't side with the Stormcloaks again after reading The Bear of Markarth. Instead, I side with the Forsworn but support the Empire in the Civil War.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Rennn

[MidbossVyers]

 

My opinion is that Ulfric AND Tullius are both Thalmor puppets. The Elves use Tullius to enforce their laws, which they write as they please with no desire to explain themselves...

 

And honestly, they're a bit hypocritical. They ban the worship of Talos because he was once a man, and yet if you read into Elven mythology, Auri-El (otherwise known as Akatosh) was once an Elf who ascended to godhood.

 

As for Ulfric...the Thalmor would LOVE to see the Empire fall apart, and that's exactly what would happen if Ulfric were to claim the throne of Skyrim.

 

Basically, the Thalmor win no matter who wins the Civil War. If the Empire wins, they can continue manipulating the human races to do their will. If the Stormcloaks win, the Empire begins to crumble, and the Thalmor can work on completely eradicating or enslaving men as they see fit.

 

The Civil war is like a little fly that won't buzz off to the empire.

You have to understand this "War" is the entire stormcloak army/militia fighting a very small fraction of the empire's forces. They have bigger concerns like the Thalmor. If the empire really wanted to end this war they could in an instant, but it would cost too much manpower/$

And Great Britain could have done the same thing to the rebel colonies, but they didn't. Just because someone can do something doesn't mean they will.

[Madcat221]

My opinion is that Ulfric AND Tullius are both Thalmor puppets. The Elves use Tullius to enforce their laws, which they write as they please with no desire to explain themselves...

 

And honestly, they're a bit hypocritical. They ban the worship of Talos because he was once a man, and yet if you read into Elven mythology, Auri-El (otherwise known as Akatosh) was once an Elf who ascended to godhood.

 

As for Ulfric...the Thalmor would LOVE to see the Empire fall apart, and that's exactly what would happen if Ulfric were to claim the throne of Skyrim.

 

Basically, the Thalmor win no matter who wins the Civil War. If the Empire wins, they can continue manipulating the human races to do their will. If the Stormcloaks win, the Empire begins to crumble, and the Thalmor can work on completely eradicating or enslaving men as they see fit.

 

Incorrect. The Thalmor *lose* if the Civil War concludes. It's stated in the same dossier that lays out how Ulfric is their unwitting pawn (and that plus his complete unawareness of Torygg's respect for him shows how obtuse he is).

 

How? If the Empire wins, the Empire goes right back to re-arming for Great War Round Two, and they retain the wellspring of martial strength that has empowered all three Empires of Men: the Nords. The Civil War was meant to distract from that. If the Stormcloaks win, the Thalmor now have to contend with an entire province of the most manly of the races of Men getting riled up itchin' for a fight, and where their Justiciars are now openly attacked.

 

What they wanted was for it to be as drawn out as possible. They were gravely concerned that would have been thwarted when Tullius bagged Ulfric and was on the way to the chopping block.

 

And in either case... You do know what the previous Dragonborn did to Summerset, yes? He sic'd a giant stompy robot at them. A Dragonborn walks the earth again. All haughty elven nations that are getting too big for their breeches are doomed. Alessia and the Ayleids. Wulfharth and the Dark Elves (though he wasn't quite successful). Tiber Septim and the first Dominion.

[sajuukkhar9000]

All haughty elven nations that are getting too big for their breeches are doomed. Alessia and the Ayleids. Wulfharth and the Dark Elves (though he wasn't quite successful). Tiber Septim and the first Dominion.

You forgot to list the wars between the Nords and the Falmer, and the Redguards and the Left-Handed elves.

 

And then there was the combined efforts of High Rock and Hammerfell, which took down Camoran Usurper.

 

And one could even consider the Dunmer vs the Dwemer, as the Dunmer have a mannish view of the world, and Nerevar was an agent of Padhome just like Alessia, Ysmir, and Tiber were.

Edited August 11, 2013 by sajuukkhar9000