xml hell. darn UI's

[bobbyskel78]

i recently decided to switch my mod manager to Wrye ... mainly because of Better Cities. Prior, i was using Darkuid Darn, which is essential, as other mods are dependent on it.

thus far, what i've tried. installing just the UI and someone's custom bain wizard. setting wrye to create a installer via changes made to the data folder ... in short monitoring OBMM. Installing the OMOD direct from OBMM. when the latter failed, it seemed obvious something smells in Denmark. Prior to all of this, everything worked w/ just using OBMM and for the life of me i can't figure out why the UIs aren't installing correctly. when installed, the behavior is repetitive, CTD before i can reach the main menu.

i started to think, perhaps it's something in the xml files that are the root of both Darn and Dark. I have a xml editor, but even with that it won't even try to compile or view the xml files, as they all seem to missing declarations ... entities i believe was the error. i've yet to ever bother w/ xml and now that i am, it's xml hell. Oxygen XML seems to be redirecting me to rebuild the whole d@mn thing. i was going to opt for visual studio and hopefully it'll provide a more windows/form type of building.

based on what i've read thus far from the comments embedded in the code, the authors seemed to be using a fixed resoulution, something i've already ran accross w/ web page design and java script, where a snippet does exist for javascript to dynamically alter the layout to fit any resolution. such, also exists for xml.

i'm hoping to have better success w/ the xml editor from Visual Studio ... but i'm not holding my breath.

i've already noted other authors attempting to create a BAIN installer for both ObXp and Darn ... which apparently don't play well together. i'm only focusing on getting darn to run currently. Whether it be just cut/paste directory changes and then port those into a Wrye installer.

the question: i don't have a single clue what's causing Obliv to CTD. so with my current setup, i've removed every mod that implements any xml data ... deleting the entirety of the data/menus/ files. this approach affected 8 other mods i want to use.

i've dug into the Conscribe and Messager logs to no avail. an oddity, upon reviewing the "obse loader" .log, it removes the 4gb ram hack, so i just assumed at this point, that's a waste of time. i currently use EBF and OSR. every plugin according to the obse.log is loading correctly. i can't think of any other utility that will help in debugging the root of this prob. i did try to use procmon (a registry and file monitor), but i can't even get that to work.

any suggestions? (yes, the fonts are getting installed and configured in the oblivion.ini) i'm currently thinking it's my bash patch that may be the cause of these pre-mentioned mods from running correctly.

i didn't want to insert 8 logs or load order, when i've already been over them w/ a fine tooth comb, albeit i will if one thinks it might help.

i'm new to Wrye ... and really feel i'm just missing something simple.

tx in advance for any thoughts.

[KatsAwful]

The only time you get CTDs with menu files is when you call a font that doesn't exist. Anything else causes the element to not appear. These fonts are set in you oblivion.ini file, and the wizard BAIN installers of DarnifiedUI include files for the "Ini Tweaks" tab in Wrye Bash. Either it wasn't set properly, or it's not the menus

Edited July 27, 2021 by KatsAwful

[HadToRegister]

i recently decided to switch my mod manager to Wrye ... mainly because of Better Cities. Prior, i was using Darkuid Darn, which is essential, as other mods are dependent on it.

 

thus far, what i've tried. installing just the UI and someone's custom bain wizard. setting wrye to create a installer via changes made to the data folder ... in short monitoring OBMM. Installing the OMOD direct from OBMM. when the latter failed, it seemed obvious something smells in Denmark. Prior to all of this, everything worked w/ just using OBMM and for the life of me i can't figure out why the UIs aren't installing correctly. when installed, the behavior is repetitive, CTD before i can reach the main menu.

 

i started to think, perhaps it's something in the xml files that are the root of both Darn and Dark. I have a xml editor, but even with that it won't even try to compile or view the xml files, as they all seem to missing declarations ... entities i believe was the error. i've yet to ever bother w/ xml and now that i am, it's xml hell. Oxygen XML seems to be redirecting me to rebuild the whole d@mn thing. i was going to opt for visual studio and hopefully it'll provide a more windows/form type of building.

 

based on what i've read thus far from the comments embedded in the code, the authors seemed to be using a fixed resoulution, something i've already ran accross w/ web page design and java script, where a snippet does exist for javascript to dynamically alter the layout to fit any resolution. such, also exists for xml.

 

i'm hoping to have better success w/ the xml editor from Visual Studio ... but i'm not holding my breath.

 

i've already noted other authors attempting to create a BAIN installer for both ObXp and Darn ... which apparently don't play well together. i'm only focusing on getting darn to run currently. Whether it be just cut/paste directory changes and then port those into a Wrye installer.

 

the question: i don't have a single clue what's causing Obliv to CTD. so with my current setup, i've removed every mod that implements any xml data ... deleting the entirety of the data/menus/ files. this approach affected 8 other mods i want to use.

 

i've dug into the Conscribe and Messager logs to no avail. an oddity, upon reviewing the "obse loader" .log, it removes the 4gb ram hack, so i just assumed at this point, that's a waste of time. i currently use EBF and OSR. every plugin according to the obse.log is loading correctly. i can't think of any other utility that will help in debugging the root of this prob. i did try to use procmon (a registry and file monitor), but i can't even get that to work.

 

any suggestions? (yes, the fonts are getting installed and configured in the oblivion.ini) i'm currently thinking it's my bash patch that may be the cause of these pre-mentioned mods from running correctly.

 

i didn't want to insert 8 logs or load order, when i've already been over them w/ a fine tooth comb, albeit i will if one thinks it might help.

 

i'm new to Wrye ... and really feel i'm just missing something simple.

 

tx in advance for any thoughts.

 

 

You're way overthinking this.

I didn't have to mess with any XML in DarnUI to use 1920x1080

 

Also, you don't need to compile or decompile the XML files

Just open them up in NotePad ++ or any other text editor.

 

The only XMLs you need to mess with are in the PREFAB folder and they have pretty clear Notes inside the files that tell you what each setting does.

 

Better Cities can cause a lot of CTDS, I ended up removing it because of the NPCs it adds

[bobbyskel78]

The only time you get CTDs with menu files is when you call a font that doesn't exist. Anything else causes the element to not appear. These fonts are set in you oblivion.ini file, and the wizard BAIN installers of DarnifiedUI include files for the "Ini Tweaks" tab in Wrye Bash. Either it wasn't set properly, or it's not the menus

it's not the fonts. i had the same problem when only using omods. any change to any of the dependent mods: ob-XP, Atmospheric Dark Load Scrs, Alchemy Advanced ... required a total reinstall beginning w/ Darn (the root) and so forth.

 

i've already ensured the fonts are in the data directory and appropriate applied settings in the oblivion.ini file (not the default). with the omod, it wasn't necessary to apply an ini tweak, but i've tried both methods.

 

the one thing that's different, i'm using Wrye w/ & w/o OBMM. tried using MO and Nexus, which both seem inferior to OBMM w/o even the capability to use omods. it's almost as if someone stripped omod capability and added some shortcuts to LOOT/BOSS ... i know it delves deeper than that, more so w/ MO, which seems to be focused on reversible changes to any mod that would corrupt, preserving the "data" directory ... i think i was already doing that by backing up the entirety of the program folder, as well as imaging the entire partition, so the similar to UAC properties i rather frown on and seems more appropriate for users who blindly install mods before they bother reading the posts, which usually tell the tale of mods mis-behaving.

 

to-date, i much prefer using Wrye, as it's much quicker and thourough than OBMM. which even in both, i install everything minus the root OBSE files via an omod/installer. (ie. texture/mesh/lod packs, obse plug-ins ... )

 

with over 200+ mods, the idea of going back to OBMM seems absurd and yet i see no conflicts w/ Wrye, but it's not working. in the abscence of some of the Darn (mostly xml files and no script files (esp/esm not even bsa), i don't understand why it's not working.

 

thinking ahead, and before anyone suggests something i've already addressed. i did originally have my Obliv dir in the Prog directory, but i simply turned off UAC ... as i said, i image my partitions, as restoring rarely fixes anything and i find UAC a nuissance. Just to test it though, i did move the game directory out of the Prog directory, to no avail.

 

starting from the beginning and working my way down the list of installers in Wrye, moving them for the most part on the Loot recommended load order, for the non-script installs, a process of logic UOP, USIP, DSL patch, Qarl - Bombret, 2020 retex ... all of the player cosmetics have been merged via Gecko.

 

I've yet to try to re-build the patch and disallow it from Merging anything. although i'm not sure how that would help w/ non-scripted GUI.

 

As stated before, if one feels it would help, i can attach the load order, conflicts, ... yet, for the most part, they all seem the same as the conflicts i was receiving when using OBMM. the obse.log is useless as everything that is expected to load correctly, is. message logger, seems to be mostly warnings related to a specific fault in a unreferenced mod. the few times i've been able to get conscribe to work, as it's usually just copying data from the console ... which is the rarity i can get to the main menu. loading a save game ... CTD.

 

I doubted it would help, but i did a center on cell Testing Hall, waited the standard 72 game hours for a clean install. i can't remember how i got into the game that time. seems like it's been weeks ago. which was the last time i did an image of that partition.

 

perhaps it's time to do a restore of the partition ... that would be annoying, as the game isn't the only thing there. i keep feel like i'm over-thinking this ... missing something simple.

 

is there anything in Wrye that could be messing w/ a non-scripted GUI?

 

-----------------------------------------

 

Sorry for that being so elongated, guess i could have just stated, think i already did, the fonts aren't the problem. i need a strong sedative!

[bobbyskel78]

 

i recently decided to switch my mod manager to Wrye ... mainly because of Better Cities. Prior, i was using Darkuid Darn, which is essential, as other mods are dependent on it.

 

thus far, what i've tried. installing just the UI and someone's custom bain wizard. setting wrye to create a installer via changes made to the data folder ... in short monitoring OBMM. Installing the OMOD direct from OBMM. when the latter failed, it seemed obvious something smells in Denmark. Prior to all of this, everything worked w/ just using OBMM and for the life of me i can't figure out why the UIs aren't installing correctly. when installed, the behavior is repetitive, CTD before i can reach the main menu.

 

i started to think, perhaps it's something in the xml files that are the root of both Darn and Dark. I have a xml editor, but even with that it won't even try to compile or view the xml files, as they all seem to missing declarations ... entities i believe was the error. i've yet to ever bother w/ xml and now that i am, it's xml hell. Oxygen XML seems to be redirecting me to rebuild the whole d@mn thing. i was going to opt for visual studio and hopefully it'll provide a more windows/form type of building.

 

based on what i've read thus far from the comments embedded in the code, the authors seemed to be using a fixed resoulution, something i've already ran accross w/ web page design and java script, where a snippet does exist for javascript to dynamically alter the layout to fit any resolution. such, also exists for xml.

 

i'm hoping to have better success w/ the xml editor from Visual Studio ... but i'm not holding my breath.

 

i've already noted other authors attempting to create a BAIN installer for both ObXp and Darn ... which apparently don't play well together. i'm only focusing on getting darn to run currently. Whether it be just cut/paste directory changes and then port those into a Wrye installer.

 

the question: i don't have a single clue what's causing Obliv to CTD. so with my current setup, i've removed every mod that implements any xml data ... deleting the entirety of the data/menus/ files. this approach affected 8 other mods i want to use.

 

i've dug into the Conscribe and Messager logs to no avail. an oddity, upon reviewing the "obse loader" .log, it removes the 4gb ram hack, so i just assumed at this point, that's a waste of time. i currently use EBF and OSR. every plugin according to the obse.log is loading correctly. i can't think of any other utility that will help in debugging the root of this prob. i did try to use procmon (a registry and file monitor), but i can't even get that to work.

 

any suggestions? (yes, the fonts are getting installed and configured in the oblivion.ini) i'm currently thinking it's my bash patch that may be the cause of these pre-mentioned mods from running correctly.

 

i didn't want to insert 8 logs or load order, when i've already been over them w/ a fine tooth comb, albeit i will if one thinks it might help.

 

i'm new to Wrye ... and really feel i'm just missing something simple.

 

tx in advance for any thoughts.

 

 

You're way overthinking this.

I didn't have to mess with any XML in DarnUI to use 1920x1080

 

Also, you don't need to compile or decompile the XML files

Just open them up in NotePad ++ or any other text editor.

 

The only XMLs you need to mess with are in the PREFAB folder and they have pretty clear Notes inside the files that tell you what each setting does.

 

Better Cities can cause a lot of CTDS, I ended up removing it because of the NPCs it adds

 

Better Cities was actually one of the reasons i moved over to Wrye. That, All Natural and Immersive Interiors. I was using Animated Windows & Lights ... which i did get rid of.

 

I've read through the Wiki that accompanies BC. I thought it odd that i used the BAIN wizard and upon reviewing the configured files, some patches for OOO, RAEVWD oblivifall?? ... were being added. i unchecked those and re-installed configured.

 

you are correct. i'm over-thinking this, it's a bad habit of mine.

 

my reasoning for even bothering w/ the xml, w/ Atmosph Loading Screens ... a fixed resolution was being applied and i was using the option w/ quotes. i think it was set w/ a width of 1286??? ... i changed it to my res width of 1024 and they wrapped correctly. that got me thinking, why would one set a fixed res and not a dynamic one based on the ratio's instead of a fixed one based on a singular wide-screen option. then once i started digging through Darn, it also became more frustrating the fashion in which the xml was written. A simple text editor isn't formatted in a logical way, so i was using Oxygen XML. I've never bothered w/ XML ... Java, javascript, C#, Visual Basic, SQL ... i think i'm a glutten for mental pain.

 

i think i'm going to sleep on it and decide whether to do a total reinstall. i've got the load order now and BC is more than likely, coupled w/ the other mods that affect it, is probably the root of my prob.

 

i find it odd, i've been playing this Dmn game since 2006 and thus far have only managed to close one Oblivion gate ... lmao.

[HadToRegister]

I installed Darn from an OMOD, because I used OBMM AND WryeBash.

Obviously Wrye to install any BAIN Mods, and OBMM to install just DarnUI

Darnified UI 1.3.2

 

The only manual editing you should have to do is to the Oblivion.ini by adding the fonts to it, that are in the Oblivion\Data\fonts\ folder

[Fonts]

;SFontFile_1=Data\Fonts\Kingthings_Regular.fnt

;SFontFile_2=Data\Fonts\Kingthings_Shadowed.fnt

;SFontFile_3=Data\Fonts\Tahoma_Bold_Small.fnt

;SFontFile_4=Data\Fonts\Daedric_Font.fnt

;SFontFile_5=Data\Fonts\Handwritten.fnt

SFontFile_5=Data\Fonts\Handwritten.fnt

sfontfile_1=Data\Fonts\Kingthings_Regular.fnt

sfontfile_4=Data\Fonts\DarN_Oblivion_28.fnt

sfontfile_2=Data\Fonts\DarN_Kingthings_Petrock_14.fnt

sfontfile_3=Data\Fonts\DarN_Kingthings_Petrock_16.fnt

[bobbyskel78]

tx all for the comments.

i found a resolution that worked.

the fonts were never the issue, instead it seemed to be Wrye and the bashed patch. i noticed when re-building or building, the graphics from the darkuid darn were being imported. in the past, w/ just using OBMM, any changes that occurred w/ the root UID and any of it's dependents (ie. Atmosph Dark UI Loading Screens, Obliv XP, Alchemy Advanced, Display Stats ... anything that showed a conflict w/ the UI overhaul) After tagging ... which i included anything that added a xml irrelevant of whether it conflicted (probably not necessary, with 'NoMerge'. ... and now the game loads fine.

I did take one extra step, which i'm not sure if it was necessary. i installed the bain darkuid, then over-wrote it w/ OBMM. the wizard didn't seem comprehensive when compared to the omod install. (ie. there is an abscence of the player's name, which from memory is incorporated into some armor, also the choice of loading screens, and use of a lighter colored font for the main menu ... all of which i use)

Obliv XP seems to have some formatting problems ... looks as if the xml font for the stats is center justified and should be left justified ... more than likely a simple fix. I did use the Ob XP update that was available for a short period, but since deleted, although i doubt it will have any bearing on the functionality.

any who, i think just the obmm install alone for the uid would have sufficed. it eliminates the need for the font ini tweak and is more detailed than the bain wizard, although i think the tag is essential, so probably both. i suppose a deactivate tag would have also sufficed.