Please boycott Ender's game if you care about equality and the end

[JimboUK]

 

The answer to someone who wants to remove the rights of others is not a removal of their rights, that drags you down to his level, two wrongs do not make a right. I think Card is a disgusting individual but I think those who want to silence him are equally disgusting. Many people have fought and died for the rights we have today, don't be so quick to throw them away.

 

 

How is this trying to infringe on the rights of others? Once again, nobody is trying to remove his freedom of speech. People are, however, protesting his opinions. He has the right to stick to his opinions just like anyone else has the right to not support his products because of his opinions. If I advocate for having black people stripped of human rights, I'm not going to *censored* and moan about my freedom of speech being impeded when people boycott my shop.

 

 

 

I told you why it infringes on peoples rights, it's punishing people for speaking their mind. People do have the right to boycott products but these Facebook campaigns are more than that, they're the modern day equivalent of a lynch mob, the signs of the mob mentality are there for all to see, odd that those who describe themselves as "progressive" are the ones taking us back to the 19th century. Fighting hate with hate only leads to more hate and if you want tolerance from others you need to show a little yourself.

 

@pheo3309 The Montgomery Bus Boycott was a completely different thing, that was boycotting an entity that had the power to force its will onto others, it wasn't an individual expressing an opinion. Card doesn't have the power to inflict his nonsense on others, his rantings won't make the tolerant intolerant, in fact most people will dismiss him a loony. The only ones likely to agree with him are those that think that way anyway.

[Zewp]

 

Then we're simply going to have to agree to disagree. Protesting hate speech is not impeding freedom of speech, whether it is done as an organized boycott or in another way. I'm not supporting the boycott myself, but I do support people's right to the boycott and the organization thereof. An organized boycott is merely a way for people to show disagreement with what someone said. The fact that Ender's Game has nothing to do with Card's homophobia is completely irrelevant.

 

I actually find it rather ironic that when someone says 'hey, gays shouldn't have rights' he's practicing his freedom of speech, but when someone says 'hey, let's boycott this guy's movie for his radical opinions' they're somehow in the wrong and get likened to a lynch-mob from the 19th century. Because organized boycotts are totally similar to lynch mobs.

[pheo3309]

 

 

The answer to someone who wants to remove the rights of others is not a removal of their rights, that drags you down to his level, two wrongs do not make a right. I think Card is a disgusting individual but I think those who want to silence him are equally disgusting. Many people have fought and died for the rights we have today, don't be so quick to throw them away.

 

 

How is this trying to infringe on the rights of others? Once again, nobody is trying to remove his freedom of speech. People are, however, protesting his opinions. He has the right to stick to his opinions just like anyone else has the right to not support his products because of his opinions. If I advocate for having black people stripped of human rights, I'm not going to *censored* and moan about my freedom of speech being impeded when people boycott my shop.

 

 

 

I told you why it infringes on peoples rights, it's punishing people for speaking their mind. People do have the right to boycott products but these Facebook campaigns are more than that, they're the modern day equivalent of a lynch mob, the signs of the mob mentality are there for all to see, odd that those who describe themselves as "progressive" are the ones taking us back to the 19th century. Fighting hate with hate only leads to more hate and if you want tolerance from others you need to show a little yourself.

 

@pheo3309 The Montgomery Bus Boycott was a completely different thing, that was boycotting an entity that had the power to force its will onto others, it wasn't an individual expressing an opinion. Card doesn't have the power to inflict his nonsense on others, his rantings won't make the tolerant intolerant, in fact most people will dismiss him a loony. The only ones likely to agree with him are those that think that way anyway.

 

 

 

It's a boycott, none the less. What you sounded like you were saying was that ALL boycotts are against freedom of speech, hence the Montgomery Bus Boycott. Which if you go back to my posts, that's exactly what I'm disagreeing with. And again, if you go back to my other post as well, is that I've said several times that there are times and place, and agreed several times that Card isn't one of either spectrum. Are you just talking about this boycott in general? For clarification purposes, as I've said, I'm no longer going to engage in the derailment, but for clarification, it'll help others get the idea of what we're talking about and why.

[JimboUK]

 

 

 

The answer to someone who wants to remove the rights of others is not a removal of their rights, that drags you down to his level, two wrongs do not make a right. I think Card is a disgusting individual but I think those who want to silence him are equally disgusting. Many people have fought and died for the rights we have today, don't be so quick to throw them away.

 

 

How is this trying to infringe on the rights of others? Once again, nobody is trying to remove his freedom of speech. People are, however, protesting his opinions. He has the right to stick to his opinions just like anyone else has the right to not support his products because of his opinions. If I advocate for having black people stripped of human rights, I'm not going to *censored* and moan about my freedom of speech being impeded when people boycott my shop.

 

 

 

I told you why it infringes on peoples rights, it's punishing people for speaking their mind. People do have the right to boycott products but these Facebook campaigns are more than that, they're the modern day equivalent of a lynch mob, the signs of the mob mentality are there for all to see, odd that those who describe themselves as "progressive" are the ones taking us back to the 19th century. Fighting hate with hate only leads to more hate and if you want tolerance from others you need to show a little yourself.

 

@pheo3309 The Montgomery Bus Boycott was a completely different thing, that was boycotting an entity that had the power to force its will onto others, it wasn't an individual expressing an opinion. Card doesn't have the power to inflict his nonsense on others, his rantings won't make the tolerant intolerant, in fact most people will dismiss him a loony. The only ones likely to agree with him are those that think that way anyway.

 

 

 

It's a boycott, none the less. What you sounded like you were saying was that ALL boycotts are against freedom of speech, hence the Montgomery Bus Boycott. Which if you go back to my posts, that's exactly what I'm disagreeing with. And again, if you go back to my other post as well, is that I've said several times that there are times and place, and agreed several times that Card isn't one of either spectrum. Are you just talking about this boycott in general? For clarification purposes, as I've said, I'm no longer going to engage in the derailment, but for clarification, it'll help others get the idea of what we're talking about and why.

 

 

Yes it's this boycott I'm talking about, not just the boycott but the way it's conducted. I boycott several products myself, Nestle for what they do in the third world, Dove for testing on animals and EA for their anti consumer antics. This boycott is different, it's punishing an individual for expressing an opinion and investors in the film who have nothing to do with anything he's said.

[pheo3309]

 

 

 

 

The answer to someone who wants to remove the rights of others is not a removal of their rights, that drags you down to his level, two wrongs do not make a right. I think Card is a disgusting individual but I think those who want to silence him are equally disgusting. Many people have fought and died for the rights we have today, don't be so quick to throw them away.

 

 

How is this trying to infringe on the rights of others? Once again, nobody is trying to remove his freedom of speech. People are, however, protesting his opinions. He has the right to stick to his opinions just like anyone else has the right to not support his products because of his opinions. If I advocate for having black people stripped of human rights, I'm not going to *censored* and moan about my freedom of speech being impeded when people boycott my shop.

 

 

 

I told you why it infringes on peoples rights, it's punishing people for speaking their mind. People do have the right to boycott products but these Facebook campaigns are more than that, they're the modern day equivalent of a lynch mob, the signs of the mob mentality are there for all to see, odd that those who describe themselves as "progressive" are the ones taking us back to the 19th century. Fighting hate with hate only leads to more hate and if you want tolerance from others you need to show a little yourself.

 

@pheo3309 The Montgomery Bus Boycott was a completely different thing, that was boycotting an entity that had the power to force its will onto others, it wasn't an individual expressing an opinion. Card doesn't have the power to inflict his nonsense on others, his rantings won't make the tolerant intolerant, in fact most people will dismiss him a loony. The only ones likely to agree with him are those that think that way anyway.

 

 

 

It's a boycott, none the less. What you sounded like you were saying was that ALL boycotts are against freedom of speech, hence the Montgomery Bus Boycott. Which if you go back to my posts, that's exactly what I'm disagreeing with. And again, if you go back to my other post as well, is that I've said several times that there are times and place, and agreed several times that Card isn't one of either spectrum. Are you just talking about this boycott in general? For clarification purposes, as I've said, I'm no longer going to engage in the derailment, but for clarification, it'll help others get the idea of what we're talking about and why.

 

 

Yes it's this boycott I'm talking about, not just the boycott but the way it's conducted. I boycott several products myself, Nestle for what they do in the third world, Dove for testing on animals and EA for their anti consumer antics. This boycott is different, it's punishing an individual for expressing an opinion and investors in the film who have nothing to do with anything he's said.

 

 

That makes more sense. :laugh: I was going to say, you're not one for things like that. And yes. The way it's conducted I'm seeing hardly any research being put into it. But yes! I feel I've derailed this topic a bit much already. Thanks for the clarification Jim!

[Flipout6]

Well, after reading a few pages, my opinion on the entire thing is absolutely unchanged.

 

You can all debate the morals behind it 'till you're blue in the face, I know I'm going to see it. Great book, with any luck great movie. That's the only thing about this whole situation that I really care about.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Flipout6

[Michlo]

Thank you for the responses (well mostly).

Once again I feel I must reiterate, however that this is NOT just about someone's personal opinions. He goes far beyond personal opinions. He belongs to and contributes money to and sits on the board of an organization which not only promotes those opinions but ACTIVELY seeks to diminish the rights of a minority by spreading lies about said minority, instilling fear and hatred. Why so many of you keep overlooking this fact is beyond me. It makes a HUGE difference to this whole scenario.

 

Also, he IS still benefitting from the film itself as he is one of the producers. What the film makes directly impacts what he will make and hence, what will be given over to the likes of the National Organization of Marriage, the aforementioned hate group.

 

If this was simply about one person's personal opinions, such as the homophobic MajKrAzAm then it wouldn't be such the huge deal it has become.

Finally, I wonder how this new "wrench in the works" will make some of you react:

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/15/orson-scott-card-racist-obama_n_3762891.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false

 

Cheers.

[vendur]

I find it hilarious you linked huffington compost, probably the most ignorant, bigot-filled place I've ever stumbled across, and its cup rurneth over with every bit racism and fascism it purports to fight. Will this be on DVD in time for Christmas? I'll take a dozen.

[Hardwaremaster]

You know I read the book Enders Game, it was an interesting concept and narrative, if you are talking about movie however that is another problem entirely. So if you'll humor me I would like to elaborate, I am a heavy reader who is interested in everything Science Fiction, Fantasy, and History. The movie hopefully wont be atrociously convoluted, and contrived by deriving elements, not only from the book Enders Game but in all actuality the entire Endersverse. Also the defining features that will be in the movie, are in the book, and spread across nineteen different novels, and it was used as a type of mechanism to show and tell the reader, how horrible indeed, this world was was to Humanity or at least that was the intention that I think was portrayed in the Endersverse. I will personally watch it because I want to see how well it will follow the books and whether or not they will ruin this series with a abhorrent adaptation, I think it is going to be like Elysium, which in that case it maybe excellent we will have to wait and see.

 

As for the Racial Stereotypes and Homophobics. I am not actually sure if you have a problem with the movie, the books, or him. It sounds almost like a personal opinion rather then a legitimate complaint, have you even actually read any of his books. The opinion he holds is because he happens to been raised as a Christian, and it is been in the Bible, since its inception, so, if you have any issues with that you should take it up with the people, who in all actually, follow the compiled tome, and the people who wrote the books that are contained within it. Most people believe what they are raised on, without even really thinking about why, or even examining into what they think they know about. And stereotypes are the easiest thing for a writer to create, every writer does this to one degree to another, although that doesn't make it them better that's why they continue to be used. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-alien003.gif

 

Also you might like to know that Homosexuality used to be classified as a mental illness but due to people like you complaining about it, they removed it from the Psychiatry Health Books, and yet people still complain about them being discriminated against. My personal view is I couldn't care any less then I do right now, his opinion literally doesn't affect me at all in any shape, form or fashion. Also I would like to state right now that I am not religious in any meaning of the word, I know to much to be a person who subscribes to one, given the fact that I have studied the Christian Holy Bible, the Qur'an, the Talmud and many other Pagan beliefs and it continues until infinity with many different Gods and Deity's. With Atheists being as guilty as the before mentioned groups with their belief in Evolution based on faith rather then actual Scientific Knowledge but don't dare try to tell them that. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-alien002.gif

 

Now if you follow the links I posted and read them all the way through, then collaborate those with other sources which there are endless, I think you will begin to form a panorama of the Human Condition. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-alien001.gif

Edited August 18, 2013 by Hardwaremaster