I Hate Maven Black-Briar

[Kestrellius]

I do agree about the Silver-Bloods being worse, simply because of how jarring the Cidhna Mine quest is if you've come to see your character as invincible. Suddenly, you don't have your gear. And also, at least Maven has some style.

 

But anyway, there should be four basic ways to complete the TG questline.

 

1. Standard: You serve Nocturnal, and return the TG to its former glory.

2. True Thief: Screw Nocturnal, and screw Karliah. We'll be taking that Skeleton Key, thank you very much. And probably taking Maven's business too, along with her life.

3. Destroy: Pretty self-explanatory. You team up with Mjoll or somebody, and possibly some guards, and just storm the Ratway.

4. Spies: An interesting option, and the one I'd take. Instead of destroying the Guild, you take it in a different direction, using its abilities and networking skill to create a spy organization to serve your own ends. Most Guild business would now be things like Goldenglow, rather than petty thuggery -- complex, high-profile espionage and politicking jobs. The questline itself would probably deal mostly with convincing/coercing the higher-ups to put you in charge and just rebuilding the Guild. And taking care of Mercer, too, because the Skeleton Key's still useful.

[GetTheJojDone]

Aye. I honestly believe you have to be a Montgomery Burns in order to actually like Maven Black-Briar. (Let's face it, those two deserve each other.) She has no redeeming qualities whatsoever; she treats everyone, even the dragonborn who saved the world three times, like garbage, she kills any business owner who doesn't serve her product, and I can honestly say the only time I didn't completely loathe her is when she told off Halega. (Something about Maven calling another woman the W- word is just hilarious.) The only reason I am always hesitant to join the Thieves Guild is knowing I am just going to become Maven's new puppet. (I actually like the Thieves Guild storyline, although it does have a few flaws) That is the beautiful thing about playing on PC though; console commands and mods make Maven an easy target.

 

I honestly believe that the game would be boring without characters like Maven. Seriously, how f***ing boring would it be if all the characters were obsessively "honorable" (whatever that even means), axe-dragging clones? That's why, to me, it doesn't make sense not to appreciate characters like Maven.

 

Also, Maven didn't kill Sabjorn (you know, the lovely fella who runs Honningbrew Meadery and coerced his staff into slave labour by loan sharking?), just had him set up to be indefinitely imprisoned. As for "she doesn't care that I saved the world"...well, what can I say except boo-hoo? Again, the game would be a bland and boring place if all the characters were sycophantic ass-patters who recognised and praised everything you've ever done. Why would (arguably) the biggest and most successful businesswoman in all of Skyrim stoop down to kiss your ass? That's the appeal of Maven's character - to me, anyway - she doesn't care, all she cares about is what you can do for her, and if you have the spine and competence to do it right, she ain't got time for samaritan busybodies like Mjoll.

Edited September 7, 2014 by GetTheJojDone

[fraquar]

Yup. Maven is a refreshing change from the whole goodie-two-shoes crowd. Even you as Dragonborn aren't immune to her soliciting the DB to wipe you out. Not because you are the Dragonborn, but because you partook in things that belonged to her.

Edited September 8, 2014 by fraquar

[fraquar]

The worst thing true thief would do is eliminate a person with near absolute control. They'd get in bed with them instead - which is exactly where the TG is with Maven Black-Briar. Didn't you learn anything from the rebuilding the TG process? Every person who was your contact in each hold was a prominent member of that hold who had influence.

[fgambler]

The worst thing true thief would do is eliminate a person with near absolute control. They'd get in bed with them instead - which is exactly where the TG is with Maven Black-Briar. Didn't you learn anything from the rebuilding the TG process? Every person who was your contact in each hold was a prominent member of that hold who had influence.

 

That's the point of the unmarked quest to become a guildmaster, to show that there are "maven blackbriars" in other holds too and the thieves guild must regain their trust. You don't need to do this in Riften exactly because of Maven, she seemed to be the last thing keeping the guild alive and free from the Jarl's hands. Her termination would result in the guild's termination in Skyrim.

Edited September 11, 2014 by fgambler

[soupdragon1234]

 

That's the point of the unmarked quest to become a guildmaster, to show that there are "maven blackbriars" in other holds too and the thieves guild must regain their trust. You don't need to do this in Riften exactly because of Maven, she seemed to be the last thing keeping the guild alive and free from the Jarl's hands. Her termination would result in the guild's termination in Skyrim.

 

Yes exactly, and unfortunately you have no choice but to rebuild the Guild. Wiping her out and the guild should have been an option Bethesda gave you. Thank heavens there are mods that let you do this. Killing her and destroying the guild is very satisfying, I honestly hate the lot of them.

 

 

And anyway, the Black-Briars' pro-Stormcloak alter-egos, the Silver-Bloods, they're guilty of far worse than Maven and co, yet as far as hate goes, they get off scot-free because they support Ulfric. The Silver-Bloods are at least as rude, selfish and mafia-like as the Black-Briars, and not only that, they're racists who are in cahoots with Daedra worshipping murderers.

 

I have no love for them either but there doesn't seem to be any way of dealing with that. Damn I hate Markarth.

Edited September 11, 2014 by soupdragon1234

[GetTheJojDone]

 

Yes exactly, and unfortunately you have no choice but to rebuild the Guild. Wiping her out and the guild should have been an option Bethesda gave you. Thank heavens there are mods that let you do this. Killing her and destroying the guild is very satisfying, I honestly hate the lot of them.

 

The guild, yes. Maven herself, no. Because then there'd be no Jarl if the Empire takes over Riften. (I suppose they could make Hemming Jarl, but that would require more dialogue to be recorded, and then there'd be no steward)

[Quazar945]

I also hate how Nocturnal and honour are big parts of the TG. When I joined for the first time I imagined breaking into houses at will and sacking everything, but throw an evil goddess into it and it gets weird.

[MidbossVyers]

Well, that's just your naivety, isn't it? First of all, Nocturnal, or any Daedra, is not evil. In fact, no Daedra can be judged by human morals. Nocturnal may be the goddess of thieves, but she is also the goddess of luck. Without her, you would probably be tripped over 1000 banana peels. Without honor, the Thieves Guild would just be like those bandits hiding out in caves (kind of like how vampires who randomly attack towns don't get to live in the big fancy castles but are forced to hide in crypts). Also, do a bedlam job. That's basically what you described.

[Moksha8088]

I'm glad Bethesda cut all Maven's lines extolling the virtues of "objectivism". Evil and greed is one thing, but pushing it as a philosophy for impressionable young minds is something else altogether.