Dawnguard: Harkons Plan

[MidbossVyers]

 

I think Harkon's version of the plan was going to involve tainting the bow itself, not just topping a few arrowheads with blood.

 

If he'd done that them perhaps the effect would be different? Either longer lasting, or indeed - permanent. His other option would be to keep Serana and/or Valerica (if he got to her) alive, but subdued somehow - use them as a supply source for the blood he required to repurpose the arrows.

 

 

That would kind of be the assumption, but still, not very clear on that... I mean if you ask Valerica for arrows I think she says she wants nothing to do with Harkon's plan or something to that affect which implies that Harkon's plan was to do exactly what you are asking.

 

I don't know. Seems odd/off to me is all.

 

Story would have made more sense if you just couldn't block out the Sun as the player character in my opinion.

 

Harkon's plan is to use the lifeblood of Serana or Valerica to taint the bow directly permanently blotting out the sun. You're just tainting arrows with some meager drops of blood. However, because both methods involve blood to taint stuff, Valerica is mildly uncomfortable while Serana seems OK.

[TheVampireDante]

However, because both methods involve blood to taint stuff, Valerica is mildly uncomfortable while Serana seems OK.

 

I'm betting that's supposed to be due to the bond of friendship the Dragonborn and Serana have formed on the journey, after all the pair of them have been through, she trusts her new friend not to do anything wrong by her - Valerica doesn't.

 

As she states herself: She had no knowledge of the Dragonborn or what their intentions are... Could be another Harkon for all she knows, or even something worse. Even afterwards there's always that lingering doubt about them from her - because in either side of the conflict - They've proven yourself stronger and smarter than Harkon, and that in her eyes means the Dragonborn could be a much worse threat to her and her like (vampires).

[TailAbNormal]

Surprised at how many posts are on here. Anyway, There is no reason the DragonBorn should've been able to know that the bow's effects were temporary. Unless of course Serana knew that the effects would be temporary, and only told Dovahkiin that because she was curious as to what would happen, and, as Dante mentioned, because she trusted him/her.

 

Still, my PC decided to use the bow because, well, I'm sure Tamriel won't mind 1 eclipse every month to much.

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

Harkon's plan is to use the lifeblood of Serana or Valerica to taint the bow directly permanently blotting out the sun. You're just tainting arrows with some meager drops of blood. However, because both methods involve blood to taint stuff, Valerica is mildly uncomfortable while Serana seems OK.

 

 

 

Valerica wasn't mildly uncomfortable, she flat out refused wanting nothing to do with Harkon's plan so yeah... and also what this person says:

 

... Anyway, There is no reason the DragonBorn should've been able to know that the bow's effects were temporary...

 

 

Mind you technically none of them would have known as they didn't fully understand the prophecy... especially since the prophecy wasn't real and was made up... so yeaaah, No. Still don't make sense there MBV.

 

 

I'm betting that's supposed to be due to the bond of friendship the Dragonborn and Serana have formed on the journey, after all the pair of them have been through, she trusts her new friend not to do anything wrong by her - Valerica doesn't.

 

As she states herself: She had no knowledge of the Dragonborn or what their intentions are... Could be another Harkon for all she knows, or even something worse. Even afterwards there's always that lingering doubt about them from her - because in either side of the conflict - They've proven yourself stronger and smarter than Harkon, and that in her eyes means the Dragonborn could be a much worse threat to her and her like (vampires).

 

 

Dante, you're always posing some viable arguments and points of view. This time is no different, but I disagree with this notion because all the Dragonborn is doing is trying to block out the sun which is essentially the same plan as Harkon's.

 

Honestly, even temporarily blocking that thing would cause an uprising. I mean come on. Mankind realizing that vampires have the ability to block out the sun at will? LOL. Also, as pointed out by the person with the abnormal tail, they shouldn't have known that there was a difference between what they were doing and what Harkon was doing (or at least the Dragonborn but I none of them would have).

 

I think that regardless as to their "friendship" Serana would have been traumatized from this whole experience and reacted extremely badly to you asking for her blood to taint arrows so you could block out the sun. You sound too much like her father at that point and she would have regrets helping you obtain Auriel's Bow.

 

That's my mho.

[TheVampireDante]

 

Honestly, even temporarily blocking that thing would cause an uprising. I mean come on. Mankind realizing that vampires have the ability to block out the sun at will? LOL. Also, as pointed out by the person with the abnormal tail, they shouldn't have known that there was a difference between what they were doing and what Harkon was doing (or at least the Dragonborn but I none of them would have).

 

Oh, not saying it makes any sense in overall concept, just that of the two - Serana would be the more likely of the two to "give in" to the request the Dragonborn makes (for whatever reason). Friendship makes a lot of people do very strange things.

 

The entire "let the Dragonborn blot out the sun" concept itself is very, well... wouldn't say badly written, but it is rushed, there's not enough surrounding content to make it seem like something that 1. The Dragonborn would/could/should do, and 2. something they could convince Serana to go along with.

it should really have taken another lengthy set of missions aimed at proving your reasons for wanting to blot the sun, either entirely or temporary (and perhaps some method of finding out that it could be done as a temp item) before such an option became available. Rather than just a few easily tossed about lines of dialogue.

 

There's not enough detail surrounding it to make it look like a choice anyone would make, and it just makes it look like an option left in to give the player a really fancy gimmick to play with now and then.

 

If perhaps, it led to something more, and had more of a story/quest related function, it would be a useful item, say if you could (if a Vampire) co-ordinate attacks on enemies or even the Dawnguard - using the bow to provide a method of attacking in the day - or (if Mortal and Dawnguard) use it as a method of ambushing vampires, misinformation to lure them out and ambush them. Nothing of the sort though.... aside from a few comments (as is always with the series) there is no real follow up.

 

 

I think that regardless as to their "friendship" Serana would have been traumatized from this whole experience and reacted extremely badly to you asking for her blood to taint arrows so you could block out the sun. You sound too much like her father at that point and she would have regrets helping you obtain Auriel's Bow.

 

I think her hesitation to the plan was more to do with who was at it's head - Her power obsessed father. Harkon had been chasing the "prophecy" so long he tossed aside everything else, including her (on a personal level that is). He was consumed by this idea.

Apparently, the Dragonborn is supposed to have had the opposite effect on her (debatable), the multiple times you can ask if she's alright, telling her mother you'd never hurt her... that sort of thing.

 

So I don't think that Serana has any personal objection to the plan itself - just who was carrying it out. She's not taken in the "bigger issue" with the actual plan itself which again - is a story blind spot. If she had any objections to the plan itself, it should have been made clear during gameplay and she should have given the same reply as her Mother does. An outright no.

 

On the subject of the "bigger issue", and getting to your earlier comment - indeed there would be a massive drive by mortals of the realm. Something Valerica seen and understood, but that Harkon either failed to register, or just didn't care about. Most likely believing himself (and his clan by proxy) to be far superior to mortals that such an uprising could be classed as a minor annoyance to be squashed easily (his delusions of near godhood getting in the way of reason again).

 

Admittedly - if he had perhaps waited and built up a sizable force before using the bow then he might have had a shot or achieving his goal. If the effect was permanent and he had laced the country with pockets of vampires and minions in a coordinated strike while the civil war was going on - that might have taken people by surprise and led to Skyrim effectively becoming a vampire state. Upon finding out the effect is temporary - then all he'd have to do to secure his place is make sure that an arrow was let loose before the effect wore off each time.

 

Hidden behind a mass troop of underling vampires stationed at Castle Volkihar would make reaching him very difficult, so he could do so without serious worry to himself from outsiders. That of course would require a logical approach to the situation, and Harkon - is quite insane.

 

As for the effect on the sun being partial or total - I've already given by thoughts on that one, and how Harkon might have dealt with it (having both wife and daughter to test methods on - see previous posts).

[AmadanBezerk]

@Dante:

I'm not sure if this has been already mentioned, but I believe the impression (at least that I got) was that Harkon would have to actually sacrifice "a Daughter of Coldharbour" for their blood: either his daughter, or more likely, his estranged wife: to KILL either of them in order to fulfill this "prophecy" of ETERNAL darkness. :devil:

That easily explains why they both vanished from his presence long ago!

 

If one simply collects such blood without killing the donor, then uses it, obviously, Magnus is only temporarily sundered for 24 hours.... (I'm guessing....to be honest, I never did actually time it....) :confused:

I could be mistaken, however.....

Cheers! :D

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

 

...So I don't think that Serana has any personal objection to the plan itself - just who was carrying it out. She's not taken in the "bigger issue" with the actual plan itself which again - is a story blind spot....

 

Kudos Dante. I didn't even think about this at all. Wow. You're right. She really didn't seem to have a problem with the actual plan. That makes sense. I mean she willingly underwent that ritual after all despite knowing what she was in for and chose to worship this daedric lord so why not be willing to give her blood, maybe even her life?

 

I really do try to see all the angles typically, but I definitely missed this one.

 

The other stuff you said also made sense, but I believe that no matter what, mortal kind would have prevailed even if they needed divine intervention for it to happen. I mean if they can overcome dragons (story dragons, not the vanilla dragons the game throws at you that are easier to kill than some bandits lol), they can overcome pretty much anything.

 

And you're definitely right, sometimes it is the lack of follow through so to speak that kills it... so to speak. Not just with this but other quests as well.

 

 

@Dante:

...I'm not sure if this has been already mentioned, but I believe the impression (at least that I got) was that Harkon would have to actually sacrifice "a Daughter of Coldharbour" for their blood: either his daughter, or more likely, his estranged wife: to KILL either of them in order to fulfill this "prophecy" of ETERNAL darkness. :devil:

That easily explains why they both vanished from his presence long ago!...

 

Yeah, that is what we would assume, but we definitely don't know for sure especially given all the other points that have been mentioned here so far. There's a difference between impression and actuality/fact.