We get so screwed over...

[MidbossVyers]

The problem with Molag Bal and a number of other Daedric Quests is how the vanilla game keeps trying to shove them down your throat....Molag Bal's is a perfect example of this...if you don't want to enter the House you have to take special care to avoid being anywhere near the Vigilant or he will have you constantly tabbing out as he grabs you in dialog continuously..."No" apparently is not an acceptable answer....plus more unwanted clutter in your quest log is annoying. Personally I don't have an issue with killing the Vigilant if my character does enter the House...he attacks, my character defends himself...plus I tend to play a Werewolf, so one less Vigilant in the world is no skin off his furry nose... :tongue: ....What does bug the hell out of me though is the forced game play, "No" doesn't work with Molag Bal either...when you tell him to go jump that should really clear the Quest from the Journal as 'failed'....Yes, I know I can just "ignore" the journal entry, though that becomes a little harder when the idiot Priest Bal wants you to get is standing there between you and the Dibellan Child in her cage when you rescue her and you have to deal with the Priest first to get to the child.... :dry: ...not cool Bethesda.... :dry: ....Thank god for Mods like Krytopyr's 'The Choice is Yours', which means just that, if you want the Quest you can pick it up or avoid it without having to give half the NPC's in Skyrim a wide berth to avoid 'rumors', forced dialogs, etc... :smile:

Well, the guy that Molag wants you to kill is a priest of Boethia, who is fairly evil herself. Also, that priest himself is kinda a jerk, as well.

[StayFrosty05]

 

The problem with Molag Bal and a number of other Daedric Quests is how the vanilla game keeps trying to shove them down your throat....Molag Bal's is a perfect example of this...if you don't want to enter the House you have to take special care to avoid being anywhere near the Vigilant or he will have you constantly tabbing out as he grabs you in dialog continuously..."No" apparently is not an acceptable answer....plus more unwanted clutter in your quest log is annoying. Personally I don't have an issue with killing the Vigilant if my character does enter the House...he attacks, my character defends himself...plus I tend to play a Werewolf, so one less Vigilant in the world is no skin off his furry nose... :tongue: ....What does bug the hell out of me though is the forced game play, "No" doesn't work with Molag Bal either...when you tell him to go jump that should really clear the Quest from the Journal as 'failed'....Yes, I know I can just "ignore" the journal entry, though that becomes a little harder when the idiot Priest Bal wants you to get is standing there between you and the Dibellan Child in her cage when you rescue her and you have to deal with the Priest first to get to the child.... :dry: ...not cool Bethesda.... :dry: ....Thank god for Mods like Krytopyr's 'The Choice is Yours', which means just that, if you want the Quest you can pick it up or avoid it without having to give half the NPC's in Skyrim a wide berth to avoid 'rumors', forced dialogs, etc... :smile:

Well, the guy that Molag wants you to kill is a priest of Boethia, who is fairly evil herself. Also, that priest himself is kinda a jerk, as well.

 

True, thus why referring to him as the 'idiot' Priest.... :tongue: ...though that's not really the point huh....a bunch of idiots and murderous entities killing each other off is not really my Dovahkins concern, he would much prefer not getting dragged into their squabbles.... :pinch:

[MidbossVyers]

Did you complain about the free items and house?

[StayFrosty05]

Did you complain about the free items and house?

Never used them, I think the most I done in that House was take some Mead while with the Vigilant.

 

I wasn't even aware until very recently that you could use the House...since the 'The Choice Is Yours' Mod, I have never dealt with the Vigilant anyway.

Edited August 7, 2013 by StayFrosty05

[ManleySteele]

This whole line of reasoning and re-reasoning reminds me of something I learned a long time ago playing any of these kinds of games. Save early and often. For those who can't seem to avoid such and such quest, just go back to a previous save and don't do the quest. As for junk in your journal, get "The Choice Is Yours" and don't look back. I do agree with the OP that it is frustrating, trying to do the right thing in these games. The writers and programmers seem determined to make our lives a misery if we don't want to do exactly as they have scripted. I can't tell if they are incompetent or just hate most of their customers. lol. There is a mod to destroy the thieves guild. Unfortunately, many mods that attempt to address one inequity, introduces another. If I were a better scripter, I would make some changes other than the lightweight stuff I do now. Maybe I'll be up to speed by the time the next elder scrolls comes along. In the meantime, we all do the best we can. I will say that playing the game is still fun for me.

[Riprock]

 

 

 

This has been a complaint since the game debuted. My answer has always been the same: if you don;t like the consequences, don't do it. If you want to finish the quest line, do it. In real life if I want to be a heart surgeon I'll have to do a lot of things. If I don;t do those things I don;t get to be a heart surgeon, now do I?

 

if you don't know the outcome but you think there's a risk, you must calculate the risk in your head and make a decision. That's why it's called a "risk"

 

Edited August 25, 2013 by Riprock

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

I wasn't even aware until very recently that you could use the House...since the 'The Choice Is Yours' Mod, I have never dealt with the Vigilant anyway.

 

You could use the house!? Yeah... still doesn't change the fact that I avoid that guy like the plague when I see him but I also didn't realize that it was a "free" house.

 

Your analogy doesn't work in this case Riprock because the complaint isn't with obtaining anything (such as recognition of being a heart surgeon) nor is the complaint about receiving something.

 

This is more like, you're a heart surgeon but for some reason you find yourself forced into killing someone with no means of recourse or refusal and the only crappy solution available is to restart your life to a point prior to where you became a heart surgeon or have someone alter your life so that it functions differently than how it was originally intended.

 

Also...

Neither modding or restarting with a prior save count as being relevant in any way to the complaint(s) as the actual issue is with how the game originally is and immersion making the obvious solutions accounted for already by being excluded.

[StayFrosty05]

 

I wasn't even aware until very recently that you could use the House...since the 'The Choice Is Yours' Mod, I have never dealt with the Vigilant anyway.

 

You could use the house!? Yeah... still doesn't change the fact that I avoid that guy like the plague when I see him but I also didn't realize that it was a "free" house.

 

Your analogy doesn't work in this case Riprock because the complaint isn't with obtaining anything (such as recognition of being a heart surgeon) nor is the complaint about receiving something.

 

This is more like, you're a heart surgeon but for some reason you find yourself forced into killing someone with no means of recourse or refusal and the only crappy solution available is to restart your life to a point prior to where you became a heart surgeon or have someone alter your life so that it functions differently than how it was originally intended.

 

Also...

Neither modding or restarting with a prior save count as being relevant in any way to the complaint(s) as the actual issue is with how the game originally is and immersion making the obvious solutions accounted for already by being excluded.

 

Hear, hear...I still don't understand Bethesda's Game developers reasons.

[Riprock]

 

I wasn't even aware until very recently that you could use the House...since the 'The Choice Is Yours' Mod, I have never dealt with the Vigilant anyway.

 

 

Your analogy doesn't work in this case Riprock because the complaint isn't with obtaining anything (such as recognition of being a heart surgeon) nor is the complaint about receiving something.

 

This is more like, you're a heart surgeon but for some reason you find yourself forced into killing someone with no means of recourse or refusal and the only crappy solution available is to restart your life to a point prior to where you became a heart surgeon or have someone alter your life so that it functions differently than how it was originally intended.

 

 

 

Well, first, you sorta just changed my statement from "if I want to be a heart surgeon" to "if I want to be recognized as a heart surgeon". Those are different things and you are using my example out of the context in which it was made. I didn't say anything about being lauded for anything. I said if you want to be something you need to go and pay the dues required. I don't recall saying you complained about receiving or not receiving anything, either. I said if you don't know the outcome of some situation, then there's a risk involved. Weigh the risk and act accordingly.

 

But using your example:

"This is more like, you're a heart surgeon but for some reason you find yourself forced into killing someone with no means of recourse or refusal and the only crappy solution available is to restart your life to a point prior to where you became a heart surgeon or have someone alter your life so that it functions differently than how it was originally intended."

 

Sorry, but this is a bogus argument regarding the game. It is bogus because you are not forced to do that thing in Skyrim. You can choose to ignore the quest. Stop the conversation and walk away from the NPC. Since you don't actually have to do either, you're not forced into killing someone, as in your example. The fact that the quest is in your journal until finished only means that it's there if you feel like doing it later on. You're not playing "wrong" if you leave a quest undone.

 

Now, if you say "Bethesda should have allowed for that and made it part of the questlines", yes I agree, a third choice would be nice: tell that person "no" and a different quest ending should be possible, but its not. And if you say "that kinda sucks, too", I also agree. But then again if you notice, the entire game revolves around muddled moral choices. Personally I think the developers were going for a level of subtlety that they missed the mark on. I feel they were trying to add a roleplaying element that wouldn't screw up gameplay.

 

But back to the original thing I said, it's entirely true. If you want to be a jewel thief, you must break laws. If you want to be a marine, you must go to boot camp. Those things may be unpleasant and you may end up doing things you'd rather not do, but they are required to finish your 'quest'. That's what I said, Please don't twist it into "being known as a marine" or "getting to reap the rewards of the theft" or something. That's not what I said at all. I specifically used the example of 'being' something. In the game, you have the required circumstances: example want to be part of rebuilding the Blades? Well, they have a demand you must fulfill first.

 

Should killing them be an option? Hell yes. It's what I tried to do my first play-through.

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

If you want to be a heart surgeon

 

In real life if I want to be a heart surgeon I'll have to do a lot of things. If I don;t do those things I don;t get to be a heart surgeon, now do I?

 

Whether you want to actually be a heart surgeon or you want to be recognized as a heart surgeon, you would have to do things for either to happen... therefore by that context they are the same.

 

What you "receive" is either recognition of being a heart surgeon and/or being an actual heart surgeon.

 

So, put into different words, you pay your dues to receive something or if you don't do what is necessary then you receive nothing.

 

Would it make it easier to understand if I said you don't receive certification for performing heart surgery if you don't do the necessary training?

 

Bethesda doesn't force you to play their game either, but that is non relevant to the discussion here. Equally irrelevant is that I can stop a conversation or reset the game. Why? Because my quest journal represents things that I am supposed to complete.

 

Why else would it be there?

 

Sure I can ignore all the stuff in my quest journal, but I shouldn't have to and some of us feel that if we go to help someone in need, we shouldn't get tricked and have no way out.

 

Again, you're entitled to your opinion and can think that is fine, but to act as though people wanting more than that is crazy and or makes no sense, well, that makes no sense.