Religion

[Kahenraz]

Anybody can say "I am this" or "I believe this". How many of you can say that your religious belief is reflected in your every day life and the actions that you make. How often do you think about it? ;)

[vandorssen]

As is so very rare in this world, I practice what I preach, so to speak. It brings me a sense of peace and order to do so. The only indulgence I do partake in is in music. So far, music is one of the precious few exceptions I have found to my philosophy. With apologies to Tolkien, I am slow to wrath, but also to joy. I am also considered cool (perhaps not in the most flattering definition; even a little cold) when it comes to maters of love. I am considered cold or heartless by my family and friends, when in reality I am merely being rational and reasonable. Weeping for the dead and downtrodden certainly will not improve maters for them, unless reasonable action is taken to improve maters.

 

When the tragedy of 9/11 occurred, I was not angry. I was disappointed, but becoming angry and vengeful would have accomplished nothing. King George the Second Bush did become vengeful. Although the invasion and routing of Afghanistan may have been appropriate (not necessarily required), what we have done in Iraq is entirely contradictory to my philosophy. Had we a President with more stoic qualities, we would still be on good terms with our friends in Europe, we would not have a great portion of out nations money going to rebuild a country we wantonly destroyed, and we (the US) would still be held in pitiable and high regard by everyone else. Not following the stoic philosophy put us in the precarious position we are in today. Part of the stoic philosophy is to be content with what you have. Unfortunately we were not. And the people who committed the act to begin with? They were full of passion and hatred. Are they now better of than they were before? Had they been content and rational, would they now be in the precarious position they are in? And the people who bombed Madrid? Are they going to be in a better position to bargain what they want than they were three days ago?

 

I am no atheist; perhaps there is some higher being. But I live my life according to that philosophy stated above, not by any religion.

[Peregrine]

Anybody can say "I am this" or "I believe this". How many of you can say that your religious belief is reflected in your every day life and the actions that you make. How often do you think about it? ;)

All those things are far more true for me than for you....

 

I go to not-church every day.

 

I spend 24 hours a day not-praying to my nonGod.

 

I live my life entirely free of religious beliefs.

 

I preach and try to convert others to my religion whenever I can.

 

Every action I choose is based on the fact that there is no higher power to consult with or whose orders and laws I need to follow.

 

 

About the only thing I haven't done is start a crusade and kill all the heretics...

[Kahenraz]

I live my life entirely free of religious beliefs.

 

I preach and try to convert others to my religion whenever I can.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

When I said 'Anybody can say "I am this"', I was including those classified as without a belief in a diety, etc. "I am [insert classification]".

[Darnoc]

But when we would be content, we wouldn't move on. We would still sit in a cave, hunting animals and collecting fruits and herbs. Well, perhaps it would have been better this way: Just look at all the destruction and death we caused.

 

Perhaps Ovid and others like him were right: Humanity doesn't evolve higher up, it goes downward, downward, downward. The more "evolved" we get, the more destruction and death we cause. Ovid said in his "Metamorphoses" that the Golden Age was when humanity was living in harmony with nature, then humans began to build and invent things and so war and death came into this world, resulting in the Iron Age in which we live now.

 

Concerning very strong emotions: Only strong negative emotions (hatred, anger etc.) are bad, but not the positive ones. Were would we be without people who possess love and kindness like Mother Teresa and similar people. Those people shine out of the darkness of this world like a torch.

 

Concerning Love: love for something, meaning you want to possess something, is not really love. This is selfisch (lust, desire etc.) and there I agree with you, vandorssen. When you want to know what true love is, read 1. Corinthians 13, there it is all written.

 

Anybody can say "I am this" or "I believe this". How many of you can say that your religious belief is reflected in your every day life and the actions that you make. How often do you think about it?

 

Yes, I think about this all the time. And I could point out to you hundreds of people who just say "I am this" but do not live by it. Bush is one of them. He says that he is Christian, but he doesn't follow the basic principle of Christianity: Love. When someone orders people killed like the way he did (executions and wars) he can't be really a Christian. With this I mean, he calls himself a Christian but he is not one, because he doesn't follow the principle of what he says he is believing.

 

OK, I shouldn't jugde. But sometimes I really get angry at all those so called Christians who do not act the way they say that they believe. With this I mean the ultra-fundamentalists who condemn all the other people (like homosexuals). This has nothing to do with love. And what is with the crusades, the inquisition, the conquista etc.? Those are all blemishs on the history of Christianity. How can people who say that they believe in the absolute love (then this is what Christianity is about) do such horrible things? Well, probably because everyone is human and humans are evil and will ever be evil.

 

I am not perfect, I am human as every one else. I make mistakes. But I try to live what I believe. I don't want to have a dead believe. I don't want to be like those who just call themselves Christians because of tradition but do not really believe.

[vandorssen]

Strong emotions, good or bad, will (when combined with a lack of discipline and self control) lead to negative outcomes. The passionate love of someone will lead to jealousy. The Blessed Mother Teresa was propelled, no doubt, by a great deal of emotion, but more likely the weaker emotion of desire, the weaker form of passion. Not all emotion is bad, particularly weak emotion. Weak emotions can have as profound effect on the world as strong emotions, although they are not generally so broad, and are usually free of the negative outcomes associated with the stronger emotions. Weak emotion (desire and sympathy) led to Oscar Schindler to save many innocent lives of the Jewish people during WWII. Strong emotion (hatred and pride) led Adolph Hitler to kill 6 million.

 

Desire to better our circumstances is what led us out of the primeval caves. Contentment with our situation can be agreeable with desire (a weak emotion). Contentment does not imply inaction: it only implies the exclusion of radical or extreme actions (i.e. You hit your thumb with a hammer. You can throw down the hammer and stop your work, or you can accept the pain and continue your progress). Contentment also leads us to adapt to our surroundings (in essence, evolving), instead of adapting our surroundings to service us. Not nearly as radical as say, never cutting down a tree, but rather applying the old adage “Take what you need, but need what you take.”

 

Stoicism is not suitable for everyone. It requires a great deal of self discipline and temperance. Many people, because of culture or what not, cannot exercise the degree of self control that must be maintained. And for stoics, it is not always easy. I was admonished by my family for not showing more concern for my mother when her kidneys were failing before her transplant. It was not that I did not care. I merely resigned myself to the fact that there was nothing I could do to remedy the situation. Early on in her treatment, I came to terms with the very real possibility that she may die. I felt angry (yes, I do and can become angry and vengeful, although I do not like when it happens, as it indicates a loss of self control on my part) that I should be tested in this way. It really put my philosophical feet to the fire. However, I did feel that I passed the test. I was able to regain control, and prepare for whatever fate may deal out. And in the end it did work out. The transplant was a success, and the after care has restored much of her life to how it was before that unpleasantness.

 

In addition, I have become content to leave people believe what they will. It does me no harm that others believe in God or many Gods. They desire to bring order to their world from that perspective. It also does me no harm that others yet do not believe in any God. To them, that brings order to their world. It is when desire turns to passion turns to hatred that it can do me harm.

[thanateros]

Is it really possible to live your entire life void of religious beliefs?

 

I do not consider myself a devoutly religious person, however my spirituality is one of the most powerful influences in my life. Religion, to me, carries the meaning that you belong to a particular faith where people organize and experience their beliefs in communion. I find that my spirituality is essential to my experience as a human being.

 

I believe I might have brought up this point previously, but I feel as though even if you belong to a particular religion, there are convictions you hold to regardless of your faith. These are you personal truths that you can only find through your experience.

 

I could see myself believing in God in the Christian sense of the word, but since to so many religions the term God carries so many meanings I decided to experience God for myself, outside of a religious context.

 

Darnoc, your point is incredibly well founded and I agree with you completely. I think that many religions contradict themselves in the postmodern world. Your remark on Bush is completely accurate and I raised the fact that the foundation of christianity is love in my argument for homosexaul marriages; love for the human struggle and love for fellow humans.

 

As for the religion I identify myself as being a member of they are the Unitarian Universalists. The foundation of the religion is based on the following tenets:

 

The inherent worth and dignity of every person

 

Justice equality and compassion in human relations

 

Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations

 

A free and responsible search for truth and meaning

 

The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large

 

The goal of world community with peace liberty and justice for all

 

Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part

[Peregrine]

But when we would be content, we wouldn't move on. We would still sit in a cave, hunting animals and collecting fruits and herbs. Well, perhaps it would have been better this way: Just look at all the destruction and death we caused.

 

There's a difference between being content with a lower standard and reaching the final answer. If we discover the absolute truth or reach the highest level, there's nowhere to go. One can be content, but with limits. If there is a clear and obvious gain (evolving from living in caves/etc), then being content does not require you to ignore it. But the fact that you are content does not mean there is anything to improve.

 

Perhaps Ovid and others like him were right: Humanity doesn't evolve higher up, it goes downward, downward, downward. The more "evolved" we get, the more destruction and death we cause. Ovid said in his "Metamorphoses" that the Golden Age was when humanity was living in harmony with nature, then humans began to build and invent things and so war and death came into this world, resulting in the Iron Age in which we live now.

 

Yes, but look at the good side. Yes, we've invented bad things, but the good things more than make up for it.

 

==========================

 

First, let me say that those "I go to not-church every day" comments were only half serious.

 

Now, you're looking at the "how strictly do you follow" question from a bit limited perspective. Not all religions/beliefs are like christianity where there's a clear set of laws that you are expected to follow. So the definition of "following your beliefs" could be quite different for other religions.

 

I am an athiest. I believe that if there is any higher power, it is a natural and inanimate part of our universe. Something like gravity was 2,000 years ago. Could we have a soul? Perhaps, and it would explain some things I've heard from various friends. But that could very well be just a natural effect of life, not a divine gift. And the same for any other things that can't be explained by our observable universe.

 

Now what does all that mean? Well, for one thing, there is no way to base my life on this religion. There is no higher power to tell me what to do, so it's all left to my own personal sense of right and wrong. So no matter if I follow my beliefs or not, I'm doing the exact same thing.

 

And there's no prayer or worship or any of that stuff. Sure, I could do it, but what would be the point? An inanimate force doesn't care if you praise it or not, and won't answer requests. So that sign of devotion doesn't apply to me. Or perhaps it does... since my nonGod won't answer prayers or worship, that means I shouldn't do any of that. Perhaps I'm required by my beliefs not to expect divine intervention.

 

And other religions/beliefs could be the same. Lets say Peregrinism's god gives the following orders:

 

"I have created this world for you. But I respect your free will too much to give you laws. You must live according to your own laws. Besides, if I don't give you free will, how else am I going to resolve my bet with Zeus over whose creation was better?"

 

Now it would be a Peregrinist's duty not to look to their religion for answers to how to live their life. Me, the Peregrinist, and a Christian-in-name-only would be making our decisions based on the same thing. Except two of us would actually be following our religion precisely!

 

So remember, there's a lot more ways of looking at religion. Just because a specific religion/belief system isn't common doesn't make it any less of a valid religion. You can't assume they all work the same.

[Eiade]

you guys ever heard of unitarian universalism? that's what i am. there is a unitarian universalist church about 20 minutes from my house.

 

we accept all people, regardless of race, religion, ideas and opinions, or sexual orientation. we all come together and learn to respect everyone's search for truth and meaning. whether that might be to become christian, buddist or pagan.

 

we have a higher percentage of homosexuals in our church than anywhere else in the city, because the christian and catholic churches have rejected them.

 

we have christians, jews, muslims, buddists, hindus, taoists, pagans, aetheists, agnostics, and anything else you can think of! i myself am agnostic.

[cactoblasta]

I was raised Catholic, but not in any particularly strict way. I think I'll go to heaven - not because I'm a good person, or because I go to church (I don't) or confess (I don't do that either) but because I doubt any god who can't be stuffed interfering in their creation's lives (like I would do if I was an omnipotent being) is unlikely to bother judging anyone.

 

Basically I just believe that the best plan is to pursue contentment rather than bliss and experience rather than wisdom. This is because bliss doesn't last too long without chemical assistance and wisdom will only come with time (if it comes at all). So, why not just believe in neutrality, greet each day with satisfaction rather than joy or anguish?

 

However, having said that, I also think that I'm going to win Lotto one day, so judge my beliefs how you want.