The Greybeards or the Blades?

[Lachdonin]

Also, blades could actually be one of the reasons, why the war started. They were causing problems in summerset, and we do not know, if there was a real threat for the empire at that point. I may be wrong, but that is my point.

 

Eh, even at its founding, the Second Aldmeri Domminion was openly hostile to the Empire. At the time of Umbriel's appearance around 4E30 the Domminion had already led a military coup in Valenwood, taking it from the Empire, and was known to have spies and assassins throughout the Imperial Provinces in an attempt to destabilize the newly formed Mede dynasty. As such, i wouldn't say that the Blades caused the Great War, as it was something of an inevitability.

[Urtel]

I wasn't saying they caused it, i said their not carefull actions were uncovered and were the reason for AD to start rolling on faster. We dont know much about what happened, but for shure Blades failed again. They don't even argue with that)

Now i sound like a blade-hater, which is not true) I used to like them. Some of them. Very few of them, actually. :blush:

[black06]

even though I would support the Greybeards but according to the blades they believe that paarthanax's betrayal only made him corrupted further and that P would end up like Alduin later

[justwannaddl]

Paarthurnax was more useful than the blades for me so I chose the beards. If I was choosing based on the future of Skyrim though, I would have chosen the blades because Skyrim needs people willing to fight off rogue dragons and any future threats from the Thalmor. Without you, they may kill a dragon or two but they would wind up getting annihilated by the Thalmor again in short order.

 

The Greybeards are way too passive to protect Skyrim from anything though it would be nice if the old dragon was able to unite the dragons and end their rampages. The problem with that is that he could very well wind up uniting them, become the new dragon king and go crazy with power. Even if he didn't, uniting the dragons is not guaranteed and would be slow to implement. Genocide, sadly, is a much quicker and surer option after the death of Alduin.

 

edit: Y'know, it really bugs me that the Blades are so insistant on killing Paarthurnax but says nothing about Odahviing. I doubt Odahviing avoided committing war atrocities himself and he wasn't exactly keen on the idea of following the way of the voice. If anything, he is what Paarthurnax was.

Edited August 3, 2013 by justwannaddl

[Urtel]

Very good point about Odahviing. But i do not think, Blades even know about him. And actually this only proves, that blades are no use for dragonborn. After he replaces Miraak, i guess he is supposed to stay in the Temple of Miraak. A Dragonborn place. That looks like a fine ending. There should be a mod, that makes Temple a player home, after completing DB questline.

[TheVampireDante]

Very good point about Odahviing. But i do not think, Blades even know about him.

 

It was Esbern that gave you his name....

[Urtel]

Really? My bad.

Oh, i forgot that. I advanced that far in MQ only once, so it was long ago)

 

Then it makes completely no sence at all. Or we can say that calling Odaviing again and again is a bad gameplay option. It does not fit the whole idea. I may be horribly wrong, as soon as i hardly remember things(

[Lachdonin]

I think it's more of an issue about Odaviing having already been killed. Paartunax escaped the Dragon Hunt alive, whereas Odaviing was already dead. The Blades seem to have a special vendetta against Dragons' they've never killed, and don't seem capable of rationalizing priorities in consideration of the fact that you can bring Dragons back to life.

[MidbossVyers]

The Greybeards allow you to choose your own path. If you talk to Arngeir after killing Alduin (and you decided not to kill Paarthurnax), Arngeir tells you that your future is up to you. On the other hand, even though the Blades say that they're here to help and guide you, it's blatantly obvious that you're their weapon against dragons and the Thalmor. If anything, the Blades must not think very highly of you. Delphine says that Paarthurnax was protected by the Greybeards and then the Emperors. The Blades once served the Emperors without issue, but as soon as you come on, they're all like "We can't help you until Paarthurnax is dead despite formerly serving people who also protected Paarthurnax". As such, I conclude that at least Delphine thinks that you can be pushed around unlike previous Dragonborn. I cannot align myself with such a b****.

[TheVampireDante]

Delphine is actually a pretty good example of someone in her situation.

 

Hunted for years, surviving by using everything she's been trained to - spying, infiltration, subterfuge, misdirection, stealth and no doubt - assassination - plus all sorts of other cloak and dagger operations to throw any potential hostiles off her track, but also taking any advantage she can to mess with the plans and actions of known enemies. Something she sees with the Dragonborn - someone fresh into their role, unsure of their power and from her view - easily led. Dealing with the Dragons to her - was a side article, she thought the Thalmor had a hand in their appearance, and If it means messing up Thalmor schemes - she's going to manipulate the Dragonborn as much as she can. It's what she does.

 

Finding out the Thalmor didn't know about the Dragons was a disappointment - if they had been, then that information would have been a goldmine - seeding that amongst the warring factions and the general population would have led to an uproar against them.

 

As stated, the freshly empowered Dovahkiin is a very convenient weapon that's literally walked into her tavern and said "So, what's my next task?" and Delphine is pointing them right where she wants the damage done. So as a few have said, no - Delphine does not think highly of the Dragonborn - but she does value the power that is present within them, because that is something she can use. As long as she can keep them focused - which is why she dislikes the Greybeards, a group of powerful men that squander their abilities when it could be used for so much.

 

Perhaps why she's so insistent on the death of Paarthanax, she's most likely hoping that if she can convince the Dragonborn go through with it, the Greybeards will want nothing more to do with them - and that will get them out of her way to finish "fine tuning" her new weapon into something that can be called upon to act without interference. She has no use for something that she can't use when needed, so if the Dragonborn hesitates/refuses in the killing of Paarthanax - then they can't fulfill the role she wants them to, and is useless from that point on.

 

So yes, she's a harsh, direct and manipulative harpy of a woman - because that's what her training as a Blade has made her.

 

Greybeards:

 

Honestly, I expected more resistance from them over the Paarthanax issue - obviously not happy with it but despite their dedication to him and following of his teachings, they allow you to continue on up that mountain to bring their ancient master his death? When I first picked the option to kill him (a very long time back) I at least expected them to try and blockade me from getting up there. Didn't happen, a few disappointed words and a basic "do what you will" style speech. I'd say they are incredibly dedicated to the meditative and passive nature of the teachings indeed if they are willing to let you carry out the act.

 

For all intents you kill the Greybeard order along with Paarthanax - the knowledge he has, and the influence he could take to the other Dragons after the defeat of Alduin is immense. No Mortal would bring that kind of status back, and none of the existing Greybeards look like they have long enough left to start teaching new recruits enough to save the order for future generations.

 

The Blades can survive in secret without the Dragonborn - the Greybeards cannot survive without the Dragon.