What is Alduin in fact

[fifteenspades]

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:The_Alduin/Akatosh_Dichotomy

 

If Aludin is indeed Akatosh, then that means aludin is the one who gave you the powers to be dragonborn correct?

and it also means alduin saved you even though he knew you would be the one who is destined to defeat him right?

[Lachdonin]

Its a little more complicated than that. Alduin, like all Et'Ada, is a creature bound to its nature. He represents the inevitable conclusion of all timelines, literally the end of the world made manifest. However, the end of the world, while inevitable, is never certain from one moment to the next. While it will happen eventually, there's always something with the chance to stave it off for a little longer. It's like eating, we all know we're going to die eventually, but we can push that back by not starving ourselves (and getting exercise, not doing drugs, not indulging in base jumping etc.).

 

Now, the source of the Dragonborns power is still open for debate. Some, such as the Greybeards and indeed many Nords seem to beleive that it's a divine blessing from Akatosh. This does actually work in this concept (which i am admittedly making up as i go) because constant constructive maintenance can stave off the deleterious effects of time. If Akatosh represents the more beneficial aspects of time, it makes some sense that the Dragonborn, being an element of stability for the world, would draw his power from there.

 

However, then we have Miraak. To me it seems increasingly likely that Miraak, the first Dragonborn, did not receive his powers as a blessing from Akatosh, but rather stole them. If this is the source of all Dragonborn, then it means they are not supposed to exist in the natural order of Mundus at all, and that the Dovahkiin's opposition of Alduin is in fact an unnatural preservation of the world past its time. This would also somewhat fit with the idea of a Skyrim Dragonbreak and the Docahkiin's mantling of Talos through the civil war timelines. By being there and opposing Alduin, the Dovahkiin has upset the order of the universe, temporarily breaking the continuity of time.

[DeltaWulf]

The reason Alduin and Akatosh seem to be the same deity in Nordic culture is because, in the Nordic pantheon of gods, Akatosh does not exist. Shor is their primary god above all, Alduin plays his anti-role as the opposite force to Shor. To them, Akatosh is not real.

[justwannaddl]

I am not sure I would say Alduin is an equal to Shor or Akatosh. Their relationship reminds me of the Devil and God in Christianity. The devil isn't more powerful than god but he certainly does oppose god and can bring ruin to the world. Of course, this is TES we are talking about so for all we know non-daedric gods are next to powerless at this point and Alduin's power can only continue to grow in the future.

 

As for comparing him to a celestial body, I doubt he really has one. Just as daedra and daedric princes dwell in their own planes of Oblivion, dragons and mortals generally dwell in Mundus.

 

Considering Alduin considers himself First-Born of Akatosh, I tend to agree with the in game book that Alduin is not Akatosh. His natural form most likely is a case of what you see is what you get; a massive black dragon with the power of a demigod. Dragons in general are considered children of Akatosh so it stands to reason that he is not some blob of power that assumes the form of whatever mortals tell it to, at least no more than any other dragon.

 

While someday, he may get his own moon, comet or whatever, currently, all we know for certain is that Alduin is a dragon with the power to destroy the world and the Dovakiin is the mortal with the power to stop him.

Edited August 3, 2013 by justwannaddl

[sajuukkhar9000]

Alduin is the firstborn of Akatosh, he was split from Akatosh by the heavens themselves, and representable Akatosh on a lower plane of existence.

 

Just like anu and Padhome exist on the highest tier of life, and then sub-gradient themselves on a lower plane as Anuiel and Sithis, who in turn sub-gradient themselves on a even lower plane as Akatosh and Lorkhan.

 

Anu - Anuiel - Akatosh - Alduin

Padhome - Sithis - Lorkhan - Shezzarines?

Edited August 3, 2013 by sajuukkhar9000

[Lachdonin]

Alduin -is- Akatosh is something of an oversimplification... Alduin is an aspect of Akatosh, just as Akatosh is an aspect of the greater entity that is the Dragon of Time. By merit of being an Aspect, he is a divine entity, putting him above the common rabble of the rest of the Dragons, though i wouldn't say he's 'equal' to Akatosh. Shor, maybe, as the two would exist in roughly the same tier of 'God'.

 

Point is, though, he's not JUST a Dragon, he is very much a god, though a lower order god.

[sajuukkhar9000]

I wouldn't say hes equal to Akatosh either, him being on a lower plane pretty much makes that impossible.

 

Alduin's level of existence is highly unique, with no other creature being in it but him. Above mortals, but below the divines. He is the 1.5, to the mortals 1, and the divines 2.

 

As for shor, he is Lorkhan, his place would be above alduin, at the same level as Akatosh.

[Relativelybest]

As far as I'm concerned, Akatosh is just a very old and very powerful dragon who has certain unique abilities and priviliges due to his status as World Eater and essentially being the king of dragons. He does seem to have a different type of soul compared to other dragons, but I wouldn't go as far as call him a god as they are typically regarded in this setting. In fact, I'd say he appears to be considerably lower on the totem pole than the Daedric Princes. (Seeing as it's actually possible to, you know, fight him.) At best he's some kind of demigod.

 

On the subject of in-game books, I would like to once more point out that they were written by in-game people. They are basically folklore, various myths and legends regarding things the various people of Tamriel believe in which may or may not correspond to the actual reality they inhabit. I do not think these texts were put in the game to give us a way to figure out how the exact metaphysics of the ES universe really works. I think they were put in the game to make the world feel more realistic, and were made vague and occasionally contradicting because that's how myths and legends work in real life.

 

It's like how there may have been a real King Arthur, kinda sorta, but we can't use Arthurian lore to figure out who he was because it's mostly fiction based on fiction written by someone who heard a story from someone who heard a story about this one guy who used to be king and had a fancy sword.

 

Basically, the books about Alduin just details what people in Tamriel think he is, and non of those people have actually met and spoken with him nor anyone who knows him, and many of them possibly didn't even believe he was a real creature. The same thing goes for the Daedra, the Divines, Lorkhan, etc.

 

The only legitimate way to form an opinion on Alduin's true nature is going by A) what we learn from interacting with him personally and B) the accounts of his contemporaries, which is mostly just Paarthurnax, I guess. Beyond that, I think we just have to accept that Bethesda intended him to be a bit of a mystery.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Relativelybest

[BloodrendX001]

As far as I'm concerned, Akatosh is just a very old and very powerful dragon who has certain unique abilities and priviliges due to his status as World Eater and essentially being the king of dragons. He does seem to have a different type of soul compared to other dragons, but I wouldn't go as far as call him a god as they are typically regarded in this setting. In fact, I'd say he appears to be considerably lower on the totem pole than the Daedric Princes. (Seeing as it's actually possible to, you know, fight him.) At best he's some kind of demigod.

 

On the subject of in-game books, I would like to once more point out that they were written by in-game people. They are basically folklore, various myths and legends regarding things the various people of Tamriel believe in which may or may not correspond to the actual reality they inhabit. I do not think these texts were put in the game to give us a way to figure out how the exact metaphysics of the ES universe really works. I think they were put in the game to make the world feel more realistic, and were made vague and occasionally contradicting because that's how myths and legends work in real life.

 

It's like how there may have been a real King Arthur, kinda sorta, but we can't use Arthurian lore to figure out who he was because it's mostly fiction based on fiction written by someone who heard a story from someone who heard a story about this one guy who used to be king and had a fancy sword.

 

Basically, the books about Alduin just details what people in Tamriel think he is, and non of those people have actually met and spoken with him nor anyone who knows him, and many of them possibly didn't even believe he was a real creature. The same thing goes for the Daedra, the Divines, Lorkhan, etc.

 

The only legitimate way to form an opinion on Alduin's true nature is going by A) what we learn from interacting with him personally and B) the accounts of his contemporaries, which is mostly just Paarthurnax, I guess. Beyond that, I think we just have to accept that Bethesda intended him to be a bit of a mystery.

 

This is true. The only thing we can really "know", from empirical evidence, is that Alduin is a very old, very powerful dragon. Nonetheless, supernatural phenomena are indeed real in the world of TES. Such titles as "World Eater" cannot be taken lightly. They very likely have meaning. Judging from certain extracts, Alduin is, according to legend, the being that is supposed to literally gobble up the world so it can be remade, introducing a new Kalpa. Whether this is true can't exactly be confirmed.

[Urtel]

Ok, very interesting points.

But how you guys can explain all your theories from astronomical point?
Because that was my general idea. To understand, how magical, mythical and astronomical sides of lore can explain Alduin.

As i posted, i think Alduin is somewhat a magical comet with a soul, that appeared from the light of Akatosh. At least it sounds cool)