Skyrim Mod Load Order correct using BOSS?

[crazz2323]

OK, getting back into this and before I start a new game, I want to make sure I did not make any mistakes. Here are my steps:

 

1. I Installed Skyrim and all expansions via Steam and ran the game once.

2. I installed the required programs needed for mods such as SKSE, Nexus Mod Manager, and BOSS.

3. I installed my selection of mods via the Nexus Mod Manager.

4. I ran BOSS which setup the load order.

5. I then installed WRYE BASH and ran boss again inside it.

6. I right clicked on and rebuilt the Bashed Patch,0.esp

7. I re-ran BOSS and this is my load order. Please tell me if BOSS is missing anything here. I assume since mods required SKSE, that I will launch Skyrim from either SKSE or the NMM correct?

 

** Also, should I create a merge patch of all these mods using TESEdit?

 

 

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/5531/eipx.png

 

Edited August 10, 2013 by crazz2323

[Georgiegril]

The step you do not mention is to open up and read your BOSS log after running it, then address any messages it gives you, including cleaning mods, removing/updating obsolete mods, hand-placing mods BOSS doesn't recognize, etc. Maybe you did that, I just didn't see where you mentioned it.

 

I don't see anything that sticks out to me in your posted order. Are you having a problem? Someone might be able to help you if you gave details about it.

[crazz2323]

  On 8/10/2013 at 2:49 AM, Georgiegril said:

The step you do not mention is to open up and read your BOSS log after running it, then address any messages it gives you, including cleaning mods, removing/updating obsolete mods, hand-placing mods BOSS doesn't recognize, etc. Maybe you did that, I just didn't see where you mentioned it.

 

I don't see anything that sticks out to me in your posted order. Are you having a problem? Someone might be able to help you if you gave details about it.

No, the game loads up to the intro riding in the cart so seems ok so far. I did look at the BOSS logs and saw this: (I am wary about cleaning files especially the main game files... the BASH suggestions is what prompted me to make the bash patch via WRYE.)

 

http://imageshack.us/a/img600/1298/1g5b.png

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9053/xozd.png

Edited August 10, 2013 by crazz2323

[ripple]

1) Clean all the mods flagged by BOSS as containing 'dirty edits', including the official patch esm and the DLCs. You will need to remove identical to master entries as well as undelete/disable deleted references (more important CTD-prevention wise).

 

2) Don't use a TES5Edit merged patch unless you know specifically why you are using it. Merged patches need to be manually edited post-generation.

 

3) You didn't describe what problems you are experiencing, if any?

Edited August 10, 2013 by ripple

[crazz2323]

  On 8/10/2013 at 7:38 AM, ripple said:

1) Clean all the mods flagged by BOSS as containing 'dirty edits', including the official patch esm and the DLCs. You will need to remove identical to master entries as well as undelete/disable deleted references (more important CTD-prevention wise).

 

2) Don't use a TES5Edit merged patch unless you know specifically why you are using it. Merged patches need to be manually edited post-generation.

 

3) You didn't describe what problems you are experiencing, if any?

Thanks. I do not have any issues (at least as far as game starting up properly with mods added) but I wanted to post my order and make sure I am doing all necessary tasks before I get into a game that half way through, I realize my game is bugged because of something I did wrong with mod setup. I am trying to be proactive rather then reactive here.

 

I am unfamiliar with cleaning dirty edits and am afraid I will mess things up but if it is necessary, then I need a little help so I do it properly. I saw the guide and video linked on BOSS and was looking at automatic cleaning. From what I understand, I would have to load the mod that needs cleaning plus any explicit mods listed in TES5EDIT for that mod as well as any implicit mods (which I need to find out from the mod description hopefully).

 

So the mods listed in BOSS as having dirty edits are (Update.esm, Dawnguard.esm, HearthFires.esm, Dragonborn.esm, Realistic Wildlife Loot - Realistic.esp, Cloaks.esp, hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp). I am kinda surprised the official expansions have dirty edits...

 

So my step by step process is as follows: (let me know if I am about to do something wrong please)

 

1. I select only the mod and its implicit dependencies to load in TES5Edit.

2. I am going to clean from top down in my mod load order, so first I will do Update.esm (so I will load Skyrim and update.esm).

3. Once the mods are loaded, I right click on Update.esm and choose "Apply Filter For Cleaning".

4. Once the filter is finished, I right-click on Update.esm and select “Remove "Identical to Master" records”.

5. It removed 92 records which matches what BOSS said as the total ITM records that are dirty.

6. I then removed Undelete and disable Records (3).

7. I closed and saved the changes to update.esm. Ran BOSS and dirty edits were gone.

8. Next up Dawnguard.esm..... Not really sure what to do with the non official mods since they do not list the implicit files ...

 

** Also I assume I will need to rebuild the batchpatch in WRYE BASH once I am done.

Edited August 10, 2013 by crazz2323

[ripple]

Aside from the video tutorial, there is also text step-by-step instructions on the page linked in the BOSS log. You load all the mods in your load order into TES5Edit, apply filter for cleaning, then clean only the plugins flagged by BOSS as containing 'dirty edits.' You will need to remove identical to master entries as well as undelete/disable deleted masters. Just do those two things for the plugins flagged by BOSS, then exit TES5Edit and select all the cleaned plugins when prompted, so the changes will be saved. After you run BOSS again, the log should no longer display 'need to clean' messages if the plugins have been properly cleaned.

[crazz2323]

  On 8/10/2013 at 9:47 PM, ripple said:

Aside from the video tutorial, there is also text step-by-step instructions on the page linked in the BOSS log. You load all the mods in your load order into TES5Edit, apply filter for cleaning, then clean only the plugins flagged by BOSS as containing 'dirty edits.' You will need to remove identical to master entries as well as undelete/disable deleted masters. Just do those two things for the plugins flagged by BOSS, then exit TES5Edit and select all the cleaned plugins when prompted, so the changes will be saved. After you run BOSS again, the log should no longer display 'need to clean' messages if the plugins have been properly cleaned.

I did all that following the instructions with all the official content but since the guide says the mods to be cleaned are dependent on, both implicit and explicit files, I do not know what to load for the non-official ones (Realistic Wildlife Loot - Realistic.esp, Cloaks.esp, hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp). I put a post on the Nexus pages for those mods to try and find out what the implicit files are but it may be a while before I ever get a response. So I do not want to clean those until I know what mods I should load with them....

[ripple]

I am not sure what you mean by "implicit files"...? There are a lot more plugins that contain 'dirty edits', but not all of them are flagged by BOSS (either because no one reported it, or maybe a new update to the mod added dirty edits but no one reported it yet, etc. whatever). So for new mod users, just stick to cleaning the plugins flagged by BOSS as containing 'dirty edits' (all of them) unless you have mods that are not recognized by BOSS (and for which the BOSS database does not contain any information on them), in which case you should check the mod description/readme to see if the author has explicit instructions not to clean those plugins, and if they don't, check it yourself in TES5Edit. Cleaning should ideally be done in one 'fell swoop', and do not do repeat cleanings of plugins as that may on rare occasions cause issues. You can run BOSS again after you finish cleaning to verify in the log that they no longer contain 'dirty edits', and yes, it is a good idea to rebuild your dynamically generated compatibility patches every time you modify your load order in some way.

Edited August 11, 2013 by ripple

[crazz2323]

  On 8/11/2013 at 2:48 AM, ripple said:

I am not sure what you mean by "implicit files"...? There are a lot more plugins that contain 'dirty edits', but not all of them are flagged by BOSS (either because no one reported it, or maybe a new update to the mod added dirty edits but no one reported it yet, etc. whatever). So for new mod users, just stick to cleaning the plugins flagged by BOSS as containing 'dirty edits' (all of them) unless you have mods that are not recognized by BOSS (and for which the BOSS database does not contain any information on them), in which case you should check the mod description/readme to see if the author has explicit instructions not to clean those plugins, and if they don't, check it yourself in TES5Edit. Cleaning should ideally be done in one 'fell swoop', and do not do repeat cleanings of plugins as that may on rare occasions cause issues. You can run BOSS again after you finish cleaning to verify in the log that they no longer contain 'dirty edits', and yes, it is a good idea to rebuild your dynamically generated compatibility patches every time you modify your load order in some way.

In the BOSS cleaning guide under the Automatic Cleaning section here:http://www.creationkit.com/TES5Edit_Cleaning_Guide_-_TES5Edit it says "Automated cleaning requires knowledge of exactly which other mods the mod to be cleaned is dependent on, both implicitly and explicitly." and defines them as follows:

 

An explicit dependency is a plugin that another plugin relies on, and which has its filename explicitly referenced within the latter plugin. Explicit dependencies are easily determined because they can be viewed in Wrye Bash, and if an explicit dependency is missing or loaded after the plugin that depends on it, the game will crash on startup. A plugin's explicit dependencies are also known as its masters.

An implicit dependency is a plugin that another plugin depends on, but which is not referenced by the latter plugin. Implicit dependencies must be determined by checking if the mod author has listed any required mods for their mod, and by considering the nature of the mod. For example, compatibility patch plugins are often implicitly dependent on the plugins of the mods they resolve compatibility issues for.

 

In the step by step for the TES5Edit Cleaning Instructons it also says:

 

5. Tick the boxes for the plugin you want to clean and for any of its implicit dependencies. You don't need to tick the boxes for its explicit dependencies as TES5Edit will automatically load them anyway.

 

So it seems that it is a bad idea to just load the mod in TES5Edit and not its dependencies as well before cleaning. That's why I am hesitant to do anything unless I know exactly what files I should load up before cleaning.

[ripple]

Yeah...it's late and I am too tired to translate that Skyrim legal mumble-jumble. Who the hell wrote that thing anyway? :smile: I've been modding and using mods since Oblivion, back when the community was discussing and providing feedback to Elminster (the original author of the first 3 xxxxEdit utilities) about why it was important to include a 'cleaning' feature into xxxxEdit. I can only tell you that there are 2 things you need to remember about cleaning plugins in Skyrim:

 

- deleted references should always be undeleted and set to 'disabled.' There is absolutely no reason why they should not. If a plugin loaded later in the load order references a deleted reference in a plugin loaded earlier, it can cause CTDs (incidentally, this is also why users should be aware of installing 'city overhaul' type mods, because many of the ones I've downloaded and examined show a ton of deleted references where the modder simply went into the CK and deleted default game stuff without realizing the repercussions).

 

- duplicated to master records are mostly harmless, but almost always unnecessary and can cause certain mod changes to 'not work' if a mod plugin containing duplicate to master records overrides an edited record from a mod loaded earlier. So removing those records will ensure this doe not occur.

 

The general use of the term 'mod dependency' is an entirely different matter from 'cleaning.' 'Mod dependency' generally refers to a plugin that has made another plugin it's 'master.' Attempting to load a mod plugin without its master(s) will cause CTDs. An example of this is my 'Inconsequential NPCs - Enhancement Module', which is dependent on Skyrim.esm (as all mod plugins are), the base module of 'Inconsequential NPCs', the plugin for 'Immersive Armor', and the full version plugin for 'Winter is Coming.' Proper automated cleaning will not remove mod dependencies and will not cause any ill effects so long as it is done properly.

Edited August 11, 2013 by ripple