charwo Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 When does the enclave ever make sense? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for US restoration, even if it's not pretty, but the Enclave are Nazi bastards who really don't understand anything about pre resource wars American democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradgillap Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) Followers of the Apocalypse Those in positions of power often regard them as seditious anarchists; though such accusations are not entirely without truth, the organization as a whole has no interest in seizing power. The only path to utopia is to take care of each other instead of following systems where I get to take something from you in exchange for a way society wants you to live. Thus freeing me from having to accomplish anything of real value which is cherished by democracies and any hierarchy of power. It's a B.S lie and all of the temporary embarrassed millionaires just eat it up. Call it anarchy, socialism, hippies, or whatever you want but the followers have life figured out. I'm surprised at myself really. They told me in my 20's that I would grow old and begin to support the systems we have in place. Well I just turned 30 and still think it's B.S. An executive in Canada on average makes 122x what an employee makes. I don't care if you're bruce f***ing campbell. You aren't worth 122 people working no matter what shady deals and lobbying you do behind the scenes. Thus, this one person accomplishes very little which pales to the efforts of 122 other workers but then squander away resources for themselves. Freedom is at the top just the way execs like it. A good example is Helios 1. The followers say provide everyone with power or provide no one with power but do not provide the choice to those who only wish to control others that receive the power. Edited November 9, 2013 by bradgillap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relios Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 The Ncr offerns the best chance for the most amount of people to have reasonably satisfying lives.Check the NCR-friendly ending to Cass's quest, bruh. *tips fedora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charwo Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 How is that a bad thing? Letting the gun runners take it the trash? And that's the worst interpretation: is more than possible they had no idea the van Graff s were going to get iced. And there's nothing wrong with regulation that promotes the common good, in this case making sure the logistics of the army get taken care of. The world isn't a libertarian paradise: you need a strong arm, a warlord, a leviathan too keep the peace. This is why even the legion ending is better than 90% of the independent endings. Why traders and town folk and even Raoul, who's a good man through and through can speak highly to the legions rule, of not their ideals. NCR and the followers together provide the best model for hire to civilize Nevada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relios Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Except for the fact that the NCR would obviously throw any ideal of justice out the window if it was in their best interest. The last good hope for the wasteland, not just Nevada, the whole enchilada, is either a strengthening of the Followers, or a growth of Lyon's Pride. NCR is too selfish to trust blindly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charwo Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 No organization is. That's what seems to be missing from these discussions. An acknowledgment that all organizations are flawed and need accountability. And chaos is worse. And just so it's clear, if the NCR had the van Graf's iced, that's rough justice, nothing wrong with it. Cause justice comes at the end of the hanging rope, not an arbitrary procedure of a legal system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordCaptainCommander Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 How is that a bad thing? Letting the gun runners take it the trash? And that's the worst interpretation: is more than possible they had no idea the van Graff s were going to get iced. And there's nothing wrong with regulation that promotes the common good, in this case making sure the logistics of the army get taken care of. The world isn't a libertarian paradise: you need a strong arm, a warlord, a leviathan too keep the peace. This is why even the legion ending is better than 90% of the independent endings. Why traders and town folk and even Raoul, who's a good man through and through can speak highly to the legions rule, of not their ideals. NCR and the followers together provide the best model for hire to civilize Nevada.Not to throw gas on an imaginary fire, but I would expect the NCR to always do whats in its best interest. When I see a country that does whats in its best interest I say to myself "yeah, look-it that country..got a good head on their shoulders, they're looking out for their interest" As a result to people get burned, or fall through the cracks or get screwed? You bet, it happens in real life all the time for far less dramatic reasons. Ncr is far , FAR from perfect, they are simply the best option that we know of in the fallout world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relios Posted November 16, 2013 Share Posted November 16, 2013 Ncr is far , FAR from perfect, they are simply the best option that we know of in the fallout world. *Cough cough Lyon's Pride cough cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charwo Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 The thing with NCR, is that expanding into the Mohave isn't a colonial effort: they want to bring Nevada into the fold. In the long term, NCR's self interest and Vegas' are the same under NCR rule. And they would have full representation in the NCR Congress. And, just for the record, Lyon's Pride isn't a faction. It's a military squad. So Relios, are you talking about the Capital Chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel? Because I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but even Elder Lyon's vision has significant problems. Saving the wasteland is one thing, administering it is another. The Fallout Tactics Normal Ending is about what what the Capital under Lyon's would do: All Lyon's will ever be is a warlord. The Brotherhood isn't equipped to administer a state, to do anything really but basic economic rebuilding. What's more is that that future by its nature will be neo-feudal. All of NCR's problems combined and at their worst are completely negated by one fact: its the only modern state in post-Great War Fallout. It's the only only system that understands sophisticated capitalism, and the rule of law, and and the need for representative government for stability. It's the only state that understands the ramifications of the Enlightenment. Socially speaking, the development of the NCR governance and standard of living is early 20th century: robots aside, people from Red Dead Redemption would understand and be comfortable in NCR. House is economically feudal in the most literal sense of the word, the Brotherhood is cenobitic and ruthlessly authoritarian, and the Legion is actually a step above them as long as Caesar lives, as Caesar understands at least Roman level state bureaucracy. But only NCR and the Enclave have the fundamentals in human capital and industrial capacity to actually restart civilization's progress, versus just properly scavenging old tech and keeping civilization from degenerating further. And only NCR is tolerant enough to actually build coalitions internally and externally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equalcloth606 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I say the Brotherhood of steel and the NCR. if they formed an alliance ( all of the brotherhood including the midwest and the Lyons brotherhood) they would be the most formidable force in the entire USA. the brotherhood could regulate tech and help out the NCR with its corrupt government. If this happened the waste land would be restored to back to the united states of america Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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