Which Faction are YOU supporting?

[Relios]

Basic economic rebuilding is what the wasteland NEEDS. Sure, NCR is based on a modern economic system, but if you think that's what the wasteland needs, then I guess you must also be investing stocks in some 3-5 man goat ranches in Nicaragua. I doubt the Eastern chapter's growth would mirror the Midwestern's, seeing as they had a difference in interest (Midwestern chapter sought to preserve their survival, Lyons' strove to bring about the betterment of the wasteland.) NCR abandons their own groups if they don't fit their interests (Sloan) and crawls over whatever can milk the most caps (Taxing every possible energy source to specific locations Vs. the free regulation of fresh water throughout the entire surrounding area? Hmm, I wonder which has the people's interest in mind....) Im sorry, but you won't convince me that the NCR is the best hope for a future in the wasteland, seeing as the Eastern chapter has them beat socially, technologically (Oh, and im not talking about who owns the most tech, im talking about the understanding of the technology they have. Instead of researching the skill needed to use power armor they just took out the servos, strapped a battery on the back, and they're good to go! Sure they're less mobile and completely inferior to the lowest-class power armor out there, but hey! It has metal plating! While we have a group that can produce Tesla cannons and jury rig giant robots with f***ing cameras.) and, in time, militarily (They've done so much for DC, I wouldn't be surprised if their recruitment skyrocketed after FO3.) The point is, what would there be to "administer" if the wasteland is.....well, a damned wasteland? NCR's ideology would work, but only after the wasteland goes through.....oh I dont know, security? They're trying to skip needed steps while letting everything else go to all hell, and aren't they supposed to be the most populated faction? Why is man-power being such a big issue for them? They're supposed to have the most troops.

 

Caesar's legion is suicide, using sports gear as combat equipment, scraps of metal as melee weapons, putting a stigmata on technology and basing a society on one that fell ages before NCR's catalyst.

Edited November 20, 2013 by Relios

[kingwilfre16]

Im looking to mod in my own faction. Seeing as the character I RP as is the toughest motherf*#@ing new-world paladin white-knight goody-two-shoes deathclaw-brawling sniper-f***ing diplomatic terminator, he's the only one I'd trust the fate of the wasteland to. New Vegas is just so morally ambiguous that I dont like choosing ANY side. Caesar's Legion is just ridiculously backwards, hell, the only reason they haven't been completely wiped out is because they actually went against their own moral code. NCR is far from perfect. NCR feels like Obsidian's edgy statement against the US government. Theres ALWAYS an ulterior motive. When you think you're helping the faction that wants to help the people, you're actually helping the "greedy fat-cats" that just care about their "nation" under the veil of "by the people, for the people." Im not just rambling here. The peaceful, pro-NCR ending to Cass's quest is a RIDICULOUS example of this, as well as the fact that the NCR would've just let the Legion take over the Mojave if it werent for either A. Hoover Damn. B. Helios 1. or C. If taking over that area gave the Legion a population that is just large enough to cause a threat to the NCR.

D. Taxing the hell out of Vegas.

 

If your going to create a mod for your own faction (which hopefully includes taking over cities and creating patrols etc.) Can you share it? There was a request for something similar on the forums but nothing came through.

[Relios]

Im still a noobscrub at modding, barely able to function with just the GECK, so It'll take quite a while.

[charwo]

Oh I'm not trying to convince you Relios, that's not the purpose of a debate. It's to convince the audience. And in your case, I can hang you with some of your own words: in this case, the word is taxes. Any rebuilding requires heavy taxation: in every developed country in the world, with the exception of the American South, the successful model has always been high taxes, high services, which NCR provides. They rebuild the train lines, they provide the government contracts that keep places like Boulder alive, and they have the working trucks and an industrial base of any note. The only thing the Legion does better in this regard is they police the roads better and are ruthless about dealing with encroachments by raiders and bandits (ie, lots of crucifixions). NCR's problems in the Mohave are what I call he Mad Max Effect, where a society attempts to be more civilized than the world around them, making them do stupid and inefficient things. Things such as not terrorizing the enemy, or forcibly annexing settlements critical to their supply and defense plans, such as Nipton and Novac. They also defend too much in part to protect civilians. If they didn't, there would be exactly zero reason to do anything but mortar the fiend positions west of McCarran.

 

Also, do note the Sloan thing isn't fair or accurate: the NCR is stretched badly, and unable to help Sloan anyway until they deal with the Powder Gangers to the south, and as the game starts, it's been something like 10-14 days since the uprising at the prison, and the NCR needs time to mobilize and deploy forces to deal with them, then work their way up to Sloan. NCR at no point abandoned Sloan, or anywhere else.

 

As for the Capital Brotherhood, Lyons is a better leader than Kimball, and it’s fair to say Tandy had both of them beat. The problem is leaders come and go. It's institutional strength that matters, and institutional vision that endures. The Brotherhood will rebuild, but even the basic rebuilding is done better by NCR, because economics is key. The Brotherhood, in nearly all versions, has excellent elan and knowledge of military technology, but other than that have nothing in civilian pursuits. Even their military technology is almost entirely scavenged. They don't know how to integrate their tech into synergetic leaps and bounds, and even in military matters, they make rookie mistakes in anything that isn't related to bunker fighting and bunker patrol (ie Elijah could easily have won operation Sunburst if he could have seen Archimedes I wasn't designed to destroy the buildings of the plant, but was designed as an anti-personnel measure. He didn't need the Rangefinder, all he needed to do was drawn his forces into the buildings, getting as many NCR as possible in pursuit and light the sky).

And the EC Brotherhood also sucks at urban fighting: every building within one mile should have either been made impassible or blown up to create clear fields of fire a kill zones where snipers could pick off muties with anti-material rifles from the roof from 600 years. That the shell of Early Dawn Elementary still exists is class A stupid. Lee Oliver, as dunderheaded as his strategy to fight the Legion in close quarters at the Dam, is a GENIUS compared to Lyon's officers. Hell on Penn Ave, the position the garrison holds in front of the White House is completely exposed; if nothing else using the windows of the adjacent buildings as cover would be more sensible!

It doesn’t make sense to tout the competency of the Brotherhood. They are cripplingly overspecialized in military matters, and clueless in civilian administration. Better Caesar than any Elder in the long term. Lyon’s heart is in the right place, but he’s not a statesmen, he’s an abbot. And even Caesar’s vision of the Wasteland is better: because slavery falls into disuse more readily than slavery and an Autocracy is easier to reform than a feudal hierarchy. When the Legion dies away, the people of the Four States will have had the quiet to rebuild; the Lords of the Brotherhood will stamp on the neck of those they rule. It’s inherent to the nature of the organization the Brotherhood has embraced. And both will be torn asunder when the nascent middle class starts demanding rights and privileges, including power of governance. They always do. NCR has already learned these things and gone through them.

[Relios]

Welp, I know when Im beat, gg.

[charwo]

You're welcome.

 

....Mind you this is why Chris Avellone wants to blow up the NCR. The NCR's biggest problems are institutional, and it will at some point start to resemble the mess of the pre-war US. Their ace in the hole is they have the tech for nuclear powered everything, as well as molecular assembles (the vending machines are all molecular assemblers, the Madre's dispensers are just more versatile.) that can scale up with the population, so there's very very little chance of a new Resource War.