Is the Greybeards part of the Main Quest realistic?

[terickson227]

 

 

I've grown to hate the Graybeard part of the main quest. It takes up a lot of time and you're basically just standing around listening to some old guy talk, then you look at some words on the floor, then you have to shout three times and wait for the shout cooldown each time. Then you think you're finally done, but no. Go outside and wait for the Graybeards to join you at the slowest walking pace possible, and the whole thing starts again. (Thank god they don't make you do the Whirlwind Sprint three times as well)

 

The annoying thing is that this is some sort of interactive cut scene. You can't skip it and you can't just go and get a drink and a snack until it's over, and yet there is absolutely nothing exciting about playing this part of the game. You'd think that they keep replayability in mind while designing an Elder Scrolls game, but they seem to have completely ignored that for this part of the main quest.

 

So whenever I do go through that, I'm too pissed off to really pay attention to whether it's "realistic" or not.

That is one of the major downsides of being able to play what might in many other games be a cutscene. Unfortunately in Skyrim, because of bugs or mods, you might have to restart the game and go through it all over again. For me, going to Bleak Falls Barrow for the billionth time is really annoying. I don't even have to look at the Golden Claw to know the combinations: Snake Snake Whale at the room with the switch, then Bear Moth Owl at the large door. That's how many times I've been through that place.

 

 

Yeah, that too. I don't even have to remember the animals. I just know how many times I have to activate the pillars/rings.

 

1st pillar once, 2nd and 3rd pillar both twice, activate lever

Turn all three rings twice, activate claw.

 

But at least there is some excitement while playing through the burrow. Experiment new ways to kill things, or a draugr might do something funny or unexpected, it's never completely the same twice, unlike the graybeard part.

 

True, although Bleak Falls Barrow comes before the Greybeards. Sometimes I consider getting the Dragonstone with the Console, since going to Bleak Falls Barrow for me is almost exactly the same every time. I know where most of the enemies are going to be before I reach them, and it gets really old. It's like a career on an assembly line, and some people might not be able to handle doing the same thing over and over again exactly the same way, even if they are being paid to do it. Maybe I am one of those people, but going through Bleak Falls Barrow is still required to progress. It just feels like a chore for most of it now, but I'm taking a break from Skyrim (for several reasons, not just this).

[Lachdonin]

I think the flow is a little off, but from a story telling perspective it all makes sense.

 

First, i feel the need to point out that the distance from Helgen to Whiterun is likely more than a week, were the world properly to scale. By the time you are told to head to the Grey Beards it's probably been half a month since your interrupted execution. At least.

 

Second, it's hardly unreasonable for people to assume a near messianic figure to have all the answers. If the second coming Christ were to suddenly appear before us, we'd ask the poor bastard all kinds of inane things, totally forgetting that he's human and (likely like the supposed first incarnation) is almost totally limited by his experience and not possessed of divine omniscience.

 

As for asking if it's reasonable for people to go into Draugr infested tombs... well... is it reasonable for people to wander through the Paris catacombs, knowing there is a reasonable chance they will get lost and die down there? Not really, but people do it anyway. In any fantasy world, where Dragons and Goblins and Trolls are actually real, things like dungeon delving becomes perceived in a far less dangerous light, because the world is more dangerous by comparison to ours.

 

As for the Grey Beards, and why everyone seems to prod you in their direction... OUR history is replete with stories of heroes being sent off to speak to wise elderly sages on mountain tops, why should it be any different in Tamriel?

[EnaiSiaion]

Many RPGs have a supposedly very important main quest but allow the player to do relatively irrelevant sidequests instead of saving the world. It's jarring because you get to choose between breaking immersion or skipping half of the game.

Saints Row IV of course parodies this by ending a main quest mission with the person you are trying to rescue on the run in the enemy stronghold, at which point the characters remark that there's no rush anyway and suggest you take part in some game shows.

[terickson227]

I think the flow is a little off, but from a story telling perspective it all makes sense.

 

First, i feel the need to point out that the distance from Helgen to Whiterun is likely more than a week, were the world properly to scale. By the time you are told to head to the Grey Beards it's probably been half a month since your interrupted execution. At least.

 

Second, it's hardly unreasonable for people to assume a near messianic figure to have all the answers. If the second coming Christ were to suddenly appear before us, we'd ask the poor bastard all kinds of inane things, totally forgetting that he's human and (likely like the supposed first incarnation) is almost totally limited by his experience and not possessed of divine omniscience.

 

As for asking if it's reasonable for people to go into Draugr infested tombs... well... is it reasonable for people to wander through the Paris catacombs, knowing there is a reasonable chance they will get lost and die down there? Not really, but people do it anyway. In any fantasy world, where Dragons and Goblins and Trolls are actually real, things like dungeon delving becomes perceived in a far less dangerous light, because the world is more dangerous by comparison to ours.

 

As for the Grey Beards, and why everyone seems to prod you in their direction... OUR history is replete with stories of heroes being sent off to speak to wise elderly sages on mountain tops, why should it be any different in Tamriel?

I'm not criticizing the guidance from NPCs to go to High Hrothgar, or even their actions in general. As I said previously, what I really can't understand is why the Dragonborn is forced by the available dialogue choices into being strangely undisturbed by this. Some players might be more inclined to play or want to roleplay a character like that, but like it or not, that is how you must act. Adding voice acting to have NPCs respond to all possible reactions would be ridiculously difficult at best, but being limited to just one reaction, with essentially no hesitation to go meet some strange hermits on a mountain after learning you are the latest in a series of legendary heroes doesn't seem much better.

 

Imagine you discovered in real life, that you were the latest in a line of individuals with Superhero-like powers, and you likely had been your entire life without knowing it. In addition, just days/weeks ago you had nearly been executed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time as well. Every person would handle that situation differently, but Skyrim only allows a very specific and possibly unusual reaction, which would be from someone who is curious but not disturbed about this sudden revelation about their very nature. Essentially, only allows that type of reaction is allowed, which I imagine is not very common in general.

 

My real questions involve the probability of this situation, not from the perspective of Jarl Balgruuf and other NPCs, but from the Dragonborn. To be fair, an in-game balance has to be found between continuing the Main Quest and roleplaying options, but in my opinion, Skyrim is far from any sort of balance on this. Obviously, this is not the same as watching a movie or reading a story, but I can't help but feel like the Dragonborn behaves this way not by choice, but because of a lack of options.

Edited September 20, 2013 by terickson227

[Lachdonin]

Well, lets be honest, we've been short on dialogue options since Oblivion and the switch from text to voice. There is a very good reason for this (voice acting costs money) but it tends to bring down the experience somewhat.

 

As for your scenario... If I were told I was some near-god superhero destined to save the world... I would sure as hell be trying to find someone who could explain it to me. Especially since most of the other people I've met up until that point are idiot Nords.

[majormittens]

I look at it as a failed attempt to justify some parts of the story, it's really shallow and as somebody before mentioned you just stand there and listen to old geezers blabber about stuff, it gets annoying -- especially if it's on your second,third or w/e playthrough. So many things are left unexplained about them, at one point you might think they're just some awesome badass monks living on the top of the world and the other they're just some secluded mental nuts hiding in a fort.

[terickson227]

Well, lets be honest, we've been short on dialogue options since Oblivion and the switch from text to voice. There is a very good reason for this (voice acting costs money) but it tends to bring down the experience somewhat.

 

As for your scenario... If I were told I was some near-god superhero destined to save the world... I would sure as hell be trying to find someone who could explain it to me. Especially since most of the other people I've met up until that point are idiot Nords.

 

Well, to be honest, sometimes I wonder if returning to text-only in future games for the sake of options would be reasonable. Actual voice acting is nice, but restricts the options you can have for dialogue, assuming Bethesda doesn't go out of its way to have both voice acting and many dialogue choices. I obviously can't and won't speak for all players, but part of me does consider that.

 

Your answer to my fictional superhero scenario is true enough. The Jarl of Whiterun and other characters don't do much other than tell you about some legends and direct you to the Greybeards. I don't want to make incorrect assumptions, but I feel like we are having two different debates. I am trying to get opinions on how realistic the Dragonborn's dialogue is during the time soon after killing Mirmulnir, and it seems to me that you are trying to justify your position on this matter. If this is true, there is no need to defend your stance, since I am not criticizing or even disagreeing with it. What I am talking about is that there are various dialogue options, but to me they all lead to one basic reaction from the Dragonborn. That one reaction is basically (as I have mentioned previously) like this: "So you are Dragonborn. There is no refusing the summons of the Greybeards," and the available responses are A) Go immediately to High Hrothgar, or B) "Who are the Greybeards?," quickly followed by option A. There is no "reluctant" option, such as "I don't know what to think about all this," or something similar.

 

Naturally, in a debate, there are differing opinions, but I want us to be discussing the same thing.

[WatchMeGoing]

Come to think of it, this is just one of many examples in the game where you don't get the dialogue options you might've liked. There's A LOT of possible personalities that aren't covered by the dialogue options. The amount of times where you just have to accept that people talk down to you is ridiculous.

 

But as someone rightly pointed out: Voice actors are expensive and you get a relatively small amount of content in return. It's not even new content, it's just presenting the content in a more immersive way. Bethesda is a business above all else, so they have to ask themselves whether it's really worth it to add twice as many dialogue options as they have now for example.

 

It has never been their intention to create the best game, just the best game possible whilst still making good profits. Noticeable in relatively small things like the dialogue and the fact that a lot of "unique" weapons are just enchanted, renamed versions of regular weapons.