valdir Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 “The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.” More proof that the United States was founded by a bunch of vulking Mormons** I don't want to join Peregrine in the lynching Melu, but you really asked for it. You might as well've bought and knotted the rope for him. Just some friendly advice: don't talk about religion on these forums. Too many non believing, hell-bound hethens ^_^ ~V ** not racist. my best friend is mormon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmid Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 Speaking as a non-American, it seems to me that the US was founded on Christian-esque ideals, and that many of the people involved in the founding of America were Christian, and that Christianity is the most wide-spread religion in America, but it is not, per se, a Christian country. By that, I mean that the Christian church has no direct power over the government, and, in the eyes of US law, it is no more or less important than any other religion. I think that the fact that one of the freedoms that are celebrated and promoted in the US is the freedom to follow any religion you choose underlines this. On a side note, I had a good look around the wallbuilders site, but all I could really find was evidence that many of the people behind the founding of the US were Christians and that many parallels could be drawn between US law and the Ten Commandments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melu2 Posted November 5, 2004 Author Share Posted November 5, 2004 richard Henry Lee signer of the declerationIt is certainly true that a popular goverment cannot flourish without virtue in the people!william Penn Founder of PennsylvaniaIt is impossible that any people of goverment should ever prosper, where men render not unto god, that which is gods, as well to ceasar, that which is ceasar'sBenjamin Franklin signer of the Constitution and Declaration of indipendenceOnly a virtuouse people are capable of freedom. as nations becom corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.George Washington"Father of our country"While just goverment protects all their religous rights, true religion affords to goverment its surest interests!end quote. Now I am not the one who made these things up...! the founders of the USA stated these.but I belive I have provided enough arguments, statments and quotations (in some of my posts) of the founders to support my very first post in this topic!Now there might be some that will not take this as an answer, go over to wallbuilders.com and convince yourself! and dont just quote what others say, go and read it thorougly If u can blast me for that u can at least go over there and check it out! :rolleyes:And by the way, I wasn#t the one starting this topic as I made my comment in a differnt topic. It was taken and spilt of by a moderator and so kindly named this way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaningutten Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 go over to wallbuilders.com and convince yourself! I'm starting to believe you're trying to recruit us for some crazy 'wallbuilders-cult' now... :lol: Surely wallbuilders.com doesn't have all the answers!? :blink: But I just wanted to ask you if you, Melu2, could try to organize your posts a little better, as the quotes and everything is a bit messy and hard to sort out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melu2 Posted November 5, 2004 Author Share Posted November 5, 2004 go over to wallbuilders.com and convince yourself! I'm starting to believe you're trying to recruit us for some crazy 'wallbuilders-cult' now... :lol: Surely wallbuilders.com doesn't have all the answers!? :blink: But I just wanted to ask you if you, Melu2, could try to organize your posts a little better, as the quotes and everything is a bit messy and hard to sort out...<{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yes I know1 sorry about that it is just that I do have to leave the computer at times and can not answer all at one time as I want to. And I don't know how this quote thing realy works correctly. thanks for taking the time to read still read through it all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaningutten Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 There is some info on posting in the 'help' section, but for me the text is black-on-black so I can't read anything... If this happens for you, too, just try to select the text by clicking and dragging with your mouse or simply by pressing CTRL + A to select all the text on the page. How to quote: [word] put your quote here [/word] Exchange 'word' with 'quote'... I couldn't do it here since it would turn into a quote and you wouldn't see it :) If you want to add a comment to the quote, do the following: [word=A comment on the quote] Put your quote here [/word] Which would be shown as such: Put your quote here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxar Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Melu2, are you suggesting that Christianity is the only religion which holds virtues? In my eyes, virtuous living does not equal Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 QUOTEI pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Under God... Ugh, you're joking right? You do realize that the "under god" was added in the 1950s as a reaction to the "godless communists", right? The next quote is the last bit of Bush's first speech after 9.11 You aren't really helping your case by quoting a president 200 years after our country was founded, who is known for his lack of attention to separation of church and state. ============================= On a side note, I had a good look around the wallbuilders site, but all I could really find was evidence that many of the people behind the founding of the US were Christians and that many parallels could be drawn between US law and the Ten Commandments. What a surprise... it's not like there's much disagreement about "don't kill people" or "don't steal". ================================ Melu2, you still haven't proven anything, for a few reasons: 1) All you've posted is quotes with no explanation. 2) You have done nothing to reply to the concept of "separation of church and state" that is a fundamental part of our laws. 3) Your argument about misquoting the Treaty of Tripoli is pure garbage. It says in the simplest terms possible that we are NOT a christian nation. If you don't like that interpretation, tell me in equally clear terms what it really means. 4) Your arguments are incredibly vague. You refuse to reply to specific points, or post a specific point of your own. 5) The closest you've found to a "christian principle" is stuff like "don't murder" which every civilized society, including the pre-christianity ones, has had as a part of its laws. 6) You still insist on posting that stupid link, and expecting everyone to search the site and make your counter-argument for you. 7) You've still provided absolutely zero reply to this challenge: IF THE US IS A CHRISTIAN NATION, WHERE IN OUR FUNDAMENTAL LAWS AND/OR DOCUMENTS CAN I FIND THE WORD "JESUS"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaningutten Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 QUOTEI pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Under God... Ugh, you're joking right? You do realize that the "under god" was added in the 1950s as a reaction to the "godless communists", right? The next quote is the last bit of Bush's first speech after 9.11 You aren't really helping your case by quoting a president 200 years after our country was founded, who is known for his lack of attention to separation of church and state. Yes, I am aware that Eisenhower encouraged this change in 1954! I am also aware of the several other changes made to the original pledge of allegiance! But that is exactly my point, even though USA wasn't founded on, or is governed by, any religion, it still is an important part of America. And as long as the majority of the American population choose Bush as their President, and main representative for their country, I must assume that his public statements and views are similar to those of most Americans... I'm not trying to indicate that religion mattered 200 years ago, but I do mean to say that it does today. I agree with everything you say, Peregrine, but I feel it is important to add that god plays an important part in everyday life. I also want to make it clear that I, myself, think that no government should be affected, or inspired, by anything resembling a religion or god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melu2 Posted November 6, 2004 Author Share Posted November 6, 2004 Well Peregerine everybody else seems to get it with your exception!but I know that what ever I would come up with would not stand in your eyes even so u say it could. It never can u are not here to disguss anything u are just wanting to argue. So how ever rude u will get or what ever else u might think about by making fun of me for stating my opinion, go ahaead..... Iam consedering my job as done as I have made my statement. I never said anything about the speration of church and goverment u brought that up, so if u are interested in the subject go look into it! Regardfully yours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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