Random shootings in the US

[Vagrant0]

And guns being apart of the economy, are there when people go 'apes**t' as you would put it, and go capping anyone he or she can see.

 

Capping a few people, before being capped yourself is not going to solve that recession. Its just that alot of people didn't manage to acquire the higher brain function to know or understand that.

You make two mistakes.

 

You assume that all gun sales are made by people who just go randomly shooting up their town. There are a good many people who buy guns, use them legally and responsibly. There are people who enjoy hunting, sport shooting, or shooting for recreation in gun ranges. The same factories that produce firearms for private owners also supply law enforcement, private security, and even the millitary. Many police officers own their own firearms either because they enjoy shooting, or because their district allows them to substitute their service weapon with something of higher caliber due to the amount of violence in the area. Those people who own guns in their own home are often unable to use them due to mandatory regulations requiring the gun to be unloaded at all times, in a safe, and with a trigger lock. While not all gun owners follow this, this is the law in most places, which means that those who are not doing this are breaking said law.

 

You assume that just because a law were made to ban guns that these sorts of things would become less common. As can be understood by

Friends said he recently had been upset about losing his job and that he feared the Obama administration was poised to ban guns.

Such a policy would only cause more of these acts as people start seeing their "rights" taken away from them. And a common phrase;

When guns become banned, ONLY criminals will have guns.

Meaning that unless the government decided to sweep through every home, business, and every inch of the country to remove guns from private owners (breaking several constitutional laws), at gunpoint (both the owners and government "agents") people in possession of such weapons would already be criminals, so other laws may not have quite so much meaning. As is, most of the weapons which criminals have are weapons which were either stolen or obtained illegally from other places.

 

Having a gun in the home doesn't really help since it is rarely ever accessible or used by the owner, but people buy them so that they can feel safe against those who have guns, and don't care about the law. In the US there is no "scream until help comes" if your house is being robbed. Not only is the person robbing you usually armed, but often your neighbors won't get involved or else their own lives become forfeit. Furthermore, there are parts in the city where even law enforcement will not go. However, the chances of any of this happening is rater low (less than being hit by a drunk driver) since most thieves, even the desperate ones are smart enough to wait till you leave the house before robbing you. In this way, guns in the home work as a successful means of reducing crimes since thieves are usually not wanting to be shot themselves.

 

As far as violence on the street goes, this is seriously exaggerated in television and movies. People walking around town don't get shot randomly. Almost all the deaths of mugging, gang crossfire, or robbery have occcured either in bad neighborhoods within some of the more populous cities, or as some sort of fluke. I spend quite a bit of time in one of the downtown areas of one of the larger cities in the US who happens to be in one of the top 20 cities for gun deaths. So far in my life,*knock on wood* the only time I have even heard gunfire was when I went hunting with a friend a few years back. I've never bee shot at *knock on wood* despite the fact that I tend to be someone who speaks their mind and doesn't show much concern for what the other person thinks. I've never been mugged with a gun *knock on wood* despite the fact that I normally dress in professional attire when in the city. It is simply far more common to be held at knife point since knives are harder to trace, easier to obtain, easier to conceal, work without creating alot of noise, and still maintain that same level of fear. The notion that there is all this gunfire being shared in the US is just plain ludicrous, especially in any area which would even hope to have some civil order. Most Americans have never seen, held or touched a real gun. Most Americans don't even know what gunfire sounds like outside of movies. Any belief that visiting America will get you shot is just plain ridiculous unless your plans for the trip involve trying to score $500 worth of crystal meth and stiffing the seller (or some equivalent), in which case, I'm fairly certain the result would be the same in any country.

 

Essentially, you have a totally inaccurate view of Americans in that everyone owns a gun and uses it to open their beer, shoot their neighbor, and walks around town with it out and open. You also fail to recognize that any attempt to remove said weapons from those persons who are already near the breaking point would likely cause alot of pointless bloodshed in the ensuing panic.

 

You also totally misunderstand my post. I was mentioning that much of the problem lies in how overstressed everyone is, and how unstable normal people have become. A media source which feeds people lies, and a political party which is going down the crapper has only caused even more confusion.

[exanimis]

Well said VagrantO. People seem to have the idea that guns are the problem. Crime is the problem not guns. Taking away an honest, law abiding Americans rights to own a gun is not the solution. There is also a large rate of B&E (Breaking and entering) crime in this country. If we take away locks the rate of B&E would drop dramatically. As a matter of fact, it would be safe to say that breaking and entering would be eliminated as a crime in this country. the rate of items being stolen would increase as well as the amount of trespassing but B&E would be a crime of the past.

 

Locks are not made to keep criminals out, they are made to keep honest people honest. If a criminal wants to break into your car or your home they will find a way.

 

One poster has stated straight up, that they think the constitution should be changed. A single change will open the door to other changes. A single change in the constitution means that the constitution is no longer viable or pertinent to the American government. A single change means that this is no longer America.

 

 

People overseas seem to have this idea that America is this wild wild west shootout. Every one in America has guns and we carry them every where we go. That is not the case I assure you. I'm fifty years old and in spite of the fact that I have lived a rather undesirable existence, I have never had a gun aimed at me. I guess the reason that I've never had that experience is because I stay away from places like Los Angeles California, New York City New York and Washington D.C. In other words, I avoid the places where guns are illegal, I avoid the places where the state and local government has taken guns away from the honest person and taken away their ability to defend themselves. I avoid the places that blame the lock for B&E.

[ed8020]

You nailed it Vagrant

 

In my personal experience I have only actually seen a gun less than a dozen times that was not…..

In the possession of a law enforcement officer.

At a gun range or store.

In my own personal possession.

It’s probably more like half a dozen times.

I live in the suburbs of a major metro city.

Twice has anybody pulled a knife on me.

Both of those people were under the age of 16 and I was even younger (so it’s been a very long time ago).

I know one person who has been shot by a handgun.

He is a bodyguard friend of mine.

He accidentally shot himself in the butt while pulling it out to show a friend.

I have another friend with 17 years on a local police force. I don’t believe he has ever had to shoot anyone, though he loves to use his pepper spray.

 

I would rather walk down almost any street in my city than attend a European soccer match. You guys are NUTZ.

But then again; there is little reason to show footage of a match over here where a riot did NOT break out. So my perception is probably skewed. Just like yours.

We are not a bunch of gun toting vigilantes.

I always cringe when I hear someone say we are the most violent country in the world. Those people obviously do not watch the world news. We haven’t had a civil war in over 100 years. The only rockets flying over here are on the 4th of July and if you see a tank on the street over here it’s on the back of a flatbed truck on it’s way to the Yakima training facility..

[PureSnipe]

Now, I live in Australia, where a gun is a lot harder to come by than in "gun-loving" America. Imagine a burglar robbing a house in America, burglar comes in, the house-owner spots the burglar, whips out a fire-arm and blows the burglars head off. Now in Australia things are different, a burglar robs a house, the owner spots the burglar, yells out, the burglar runs and everyones (mostly) happy. No one had to die, the burglar survives and will probably be caught by the police and no one has to witness the sheer brutality of a man dieing via a gun.

 

If a man robs a house and you shoot him, thats like bringing back the death penalty for petty crimes!!

 

These are just my thoughts on the matter, I don't know about gun-laws in America but In Australia to get a gun, you have to get a license from the police and pass a test, wait two or three weeks, then buy one from a specialized gun-shop. (you can't buy guns anywhere in Australia) These gun-laws mean you can't have a fight, go to K-mart, buy a gun and kill the man. There's a cooling off period to stop this.

 

This is just what I think.

 

That's a valid point Xan.

 

Think about this though. Australia is an isolated country. The US has Mexico to the south and Canada to the north. Illegal arms deals happen all the time via the black market. Mostly supplied by gun runners based out of Mexico.

[Javalin]

And guns being apart of the economy, are there when people go 'apes**t' as you would put it, and go capping anyone he or she can see.

 

Capping a few people, before being capped yourself is not going to solve that recession. Its just that alot of people didn't manage to acquire the higher brain function to know or understand that.

You make two mistakes.

 

You assume that all gun sales are made by people who just go randomly shooting up their town. There are a good many people who buy guns, use them legally and responsibly. There are people who enjoy hunting, sport shooting, or shooting for recreation in gun ranges. The same factories that produce firearms for private owners also supply law enforcement, private security, and even the millitary. Many police officers own their own firearms either because they enjoy shooting, or because their district allows them to substitute their service weapon with something of higher caliber due to the amount of violence in the area. Those people who own guns in their own home are often unable to use them due to mandatory regulations requiring the gun to be unloaded at all times, in a safe, and with a trigger lock. While not all gun owners follow this, this is the law in most places, which means that those who are not doing this are breaking said law.

 

You assume that just because a law were made to ban guns that these sorts of things would become less common.

 

 

I never assumed that all gun sales are made by people who just randomly go shooting people.

 

How many cases have you seen with the owner of that weapon (Under License) has actually gone out shooting up his town or city? I can only count of about two because both cases, they were incredibly depressed, to a homicidal level..

 

How many cases have you heard about those who have got hold of the firearm, and took it from a friend or relative? LOTS - Its the case 95% of the time.

 

If Firearms weren't sold in the first place, then there would be no problems. The only gun sales that are in the UK, are those who stole them from those like Fox Hunters (Before it was banned) - or smuggled by some baffoon who got them out of a country which allows the use of firearms.

 

Secondly, people do use them to protect their homes from burglaries. But still, shooting a burgaler is murder. Burglary is stealing - Two Wrongs, Don't make a right. Whats wrong with using a Stun Gun instead - Non-Lethal, and will only immobilise them for a few minutes..

 

Finally, If a country never made the decision to legalise firearms, OF COURSE it will be less common.

[PureSnipe]

And guns being apart of the economy, are there when people go 'apes**t' as you would put it, and go capping anyone he or she can see.

 

Capping a few people, before being capped yourself is not going to solve that recession. Its just that alot of people didn't manage to acquire the higher brain function to know or understand that.

You make two mistakes.

 

You assume that all gun sales are made by people who just go randomly shooting up their town. There are a good many people who buy guns, use them legally and responsibly. There are people who enjoy hunting, sport shooting, or shooting for recreation in gun ranges. The same factories that produce firearms for private owners also supply law enforcement, private security, and even the millitary. Many police officers own their own firearms either because they enjoy shooting, or because their district allows them to substitute their service weapon with something of higher caliber due to the amount of violence in the area. Those people who own guns in their own home are often unable to use them due to mandatory regulations requiring the gun to be unloaded at all times, in a safe, and with a trigger lock. While not all gun owners follow this, this is the law in most places, which means that those who are not doing this are breaking said law.

 

You assume that just because a law were made to ban guns that these sorts of things would become less common.

 

 

I never assumed that all gun sales are made by people who just randomly go shooting people.

 

How many cases have you seen with the owner of that weapon (Under License) has actually gone out shooting up his town or city? I can only count of about two because both cases, they were incredibly depressed, to a homicidal level..

 

How many cases have you heard about those who have got hold of the firearm, and took it from a friend or relative? LOTS - Its the case 95% of the time.

 

If Firearms weren't sold in the first place, then there would be no problems. The only gun sales that are in the UK, are those who stole them from those like Fox Hunters (Before it was banned) - or smuggled by some baffoon who got them out of a country which allows the use of firearms.

 

Secondly, people do use them to protect their homes from burglaries. But still, shooting a burgaler is murder. Burglary is stealing - Two Wrongs, Don't make a right. Whats wrong with using a Stun Gun instead - Non-Lethal, and will only immobilise them for a few minutes..

 

Finally, If a country never made the decision to legalise firearms, OF COURSE it will be less common.

 

Not necessarily. I can't think of any cases in which a person shot a burglar for being there. You think all Americans are trigger happy. They aren't. The majority of people that present a weapon in their household will never discharge it as for the fact they're afraid to take a person's life. If the burglar presents a weapon, they usually get shot. Presentation of a weapon is classified as intent to harm, and as such you have a right to protect yourself. By removing a weapon from your hands, you are essentially saying you give up the right to protect yourself and giving the burglar the right to do as they please.

 

And think about this. If a burglar knows that there is a potential for the owner, or member, of the household to own a gun, chances are they *won't* break in while you're there. Thus never putting the owner in the position to have to shoot.

 

You live in a country where the ownership of guns has been illegal for a while. You won't see the American side of the argument unless you've lived here for your life.

 

It's not as much as what the law would do that makes it impossible to outlaw it. It's the principals set forth by the men that originally founded the country. A law banning the ownership of guns would be breaking the contract that our government abides by.

[Javalin]

Not necessarily. I can't think of any cases in which a person shot a burglar for being there. You think all Americans are trigger happy. They aren't. The majority of people that present a weapon in their household will never discharge it as for the fact they're afraid to take a person's life. If the burglar presents a weapon, they usually get shot. Presentation of a weapon is classified as intent to harm, and as such you have a right to protect yourself. By removing a weapon from your hands, you are essentially saying you give up the right to protect yourself and giving the burglar the right to do as they please.

 

No, just many don't seem to understand that most crimes "Involve Guns" -- Seizing all firearms in the country would be the right way to go. and just let trained officers use them, or just SWAT teams, or the army.

 

Are you telling me that gunning down someone is doing the right thing?

 

Its the 21st Century, you can't just gun people down in self-defence. Stun Guns are far more effective than using firearms and non lethal.

 

 

Its also called "Being a Civilised Nation"

 

-Yes, theres gun crime *Involved by drug smugglers, gang wars etc*

- Cold Blood, Mass Murder *Involving Guns* ? Unheard of

- Violent attacks *without guns* ? Quite common

 

 

Many Americans don't have the maturity to handle a smoothie maker, let alone a firearm. Maybe thats why I never got along with ANY of the Americans on my dads side.

[PureSnipe]

No, just many don't seem to understand that most crimes "Involve Guns" -- Seizing all firearms in the country would be the right way to go. and just let trained officers use them, or just SWAT teams, or the army.

 

Are you telling me that gunning down someone is doing the right thing?

 

Its the 21st Century, you can't just gun people down in self-defence. Stun Guns are far more effective than using firearms and non lethal.

 

That's the way it is in Mexico. Why do they have a higher mortality rate due to firearms?

 

As I said again. You'll never see things as we do for the fact you live under different principals. The right to keep and bear arms was meant for more than personal defense. It was also meant for defense from a tyrannical government. I don't think a stun gun will help when your government goes downhill.

 

Guns are an insurance policy. You hope you never need it, but thank god you have it if you do.

[PureSnipe]

http://www.census.gov/population/www/popclockus.html

Here's a counter that estimates the population of the US.

That number is currently 5x the population of your country.

 

If you can tell me how the government can monitor every one of those people for the ownership of a gun, and seize it when they do, then I might believe that it can be done.

 

In theory, it works. In practicality, it doesn't.

And in all honesty, how are they going to seize guns? The only record of a gun purchase in Texas is a form the dealer has. I know what mine is going to do to those forms if the government places a seizure. He's got an industrial strength shredder for his use.

[Javalin]

Simple, They keep records of who the Fire Arms licences go to.

 

 

If they haven't been doing that, then your government has already failed, and has just provoked gun crimes.

 

 

One Death every 12 seconds would be very trigger happy. But I understand that isn't just for firearms only.

 

Firearms, Natural Causes, Illnesses etc. are included in there