*RANT* How The BoS Is Disgraced In FNV

[madman132]

And yet, the lyons chapter was one of the most successful in gathering tech. Mostly because i unload a million plasma rifles there all the time :p

For them, "helping the people" was a rather easy decision, They didn't have much technology; i doubt any brotherhood chapter would go through the hassle of attacking rivet city to get Harkness' plasma rifle.

The Super mutants, everyone's enemy is where valuable technology might be, so go kill everyone's enemy.

The purifier is valuable technology, it produces clean water, enough for all my troops and also the wastelanders.

Enclave soldiers show up later when the scientist comes back with a plan to make the thing work so i need to kill the enclave, my troops need water.

In the end, the BoS killed enemies of everyone and then gave water to everyone. It would be rather hard to not be good guys then =)

 

But yeah, lyons had enough of the killing and i suspect he got that everyone can be a Brother of steel with kodiak. If Kodiak, the baby from the pitt, can be a brother of steel, then everyone can and that makes everyone a potential BoS sibling.

In the end, that is the only practical way to fulffil part of the mission. The technology needs to be hoarded not only because its secrets wont be lost but also so that humans wont be hurting each other with it.

If you create a state in which the BoS takes the lead or one of the higher positions, everyone is, in a sense, a sibling in steel.

No more weapons in the DC wasteland outside of brotherhood control if everyone's a brother.

 

Other solution, scavenge and repair weapons from super mutants, trade them against energy weapons with wastelanders. Maybe two hunting rifles for one laser pistol.

You'll get energy weapons enough to fill a backpack so large liberty prime can't carry it.

 

 

Compared to the laughable "successes" some other chapters had i'd say if the brotherhood wont adapt, they will indeed fade away, like Veronice predicts.

And they'll be ok with fading away if it means they wont stray from their dead ended path like McNamara.

I'd say they'd deserve to die.

[avallanche]

The world changed. The BoS was once a mighty power, but now they are facing real armies, well armed and organized. They will have to adapt or will inevitable fade away. Thats the point that the game is trying to make. DC BoS Chapter, Midwestern BoS Chapter... adapt or fade away.

In new vegas you have an option to let a more liberal elder keep control, opening even the possibility of a truce (temporarily or not), or a conservator one, inevitably dooming the chapter.

I dont know how they will be portrayed in fallout 4, but the BoS is loosing power, loosing control over each chapter that adapt to new realitys. Theres a good chance that they will end up been the main villian in future fallout games if they were unable to adapt.

[MarchUntoTorment]

[Words]

 

Did it ever perhaps occur to you that a 'good' faction may not simply be the most morally righteous and overwhelmingly successful one, but the one with the most interesting ideology deeply complex morality?

 

That's why I loved New Vegas' Brotherhood. Not because they were the ultimate perfect superhero white knights.

 

But rather, because they had a genuinely interesting storyline with a fascinating conflict between abandoning their ideals (in a group where ideals are everything) and slowly fading away into the dark.

[jeeed]

Boo hoo.

 

They are not the good guys.

 

If there's one thing you should have taken away from New Vegas, it is this: "No matter what it looks like, it's all government and none of it works."

 

Sure, the Capital Wasteland chapter was really altruistic and that's mostly due to the fact that Bethesda could not write well if their lives depended on it.

But, the Mojave chapter, after years upon years of being beaten down by the NCR and other encroaching factions, has grown to be nothing more than a bunch of greedy, incestuous, xenophobic technocrats.

 

Also, in Fallout 1 and 2, the BoS were far from the good guys.

[peadar1987]

" it's all government and none of it works"

 

Hmm... I don't agree. The NCR and the legion aren't perfect, but it's made very clear that they're a lot better than pure anarchy, as Raul says, before the Legion, Arizona was so think with raiders you couldn't trade with towns two miles down the road, and the first two fallout games show California wasn't exactly a great place before the NCR.

[Fistandilius]

" it's all government and none of it works"

 

Hmm... I don't agree. The NCR and the legion aren't perfect, but it's made very clear that they're a lot better than pure anarchy, as Raul says, before the Legion, Arizona was so think with raiders you couldn't trade with towns two miles down the road, and the first two fallout games show California wasn't exactly a great place before the NCR.

 

I think that's a fair point, but it's also why I think the whole game environment is way screwed up. Bethesda made the choice of setting the timeline at 200 years after the bombs fell. People should have been rebuilding at that point. In FO3 it at least makes sense that DC isn't rebuilt because you can't rebuild things when you have Super Mutants and Raiders knocking it down, but NCR has supposedly brought order to the Mohave, so why don't we see more signs of infastructure. There are several cities like Westside where they are growing plants, but why are they sleeping outside on pallets when there are boarded up buildings that are unoccupied? It may not snow in the Mohave, but the temperature in the desert drops ridiculously at night.

 

I could see on the outskirts of town where there are issues, but there's a large part of the Mohave around freeside where there is no fiend activity and regular patrols by NCR, but nobody is rebuilding. Even in Freeside where the Followers are supposedly trying to teach people to live and learn the old technologies. The whole game environment makes little sense to me.

 

For example, NCR's main headquarters in the Mohave is right next to the most concentrated area of Fiends in the desert. Why haven't they eliminated that threat a long time ago instead of having a full garrison at the Mohave Outpost that doesn't seem to serve any point at all? Their soldiers are literally dying every day right outside their main headquarters and the only thing they do about it is post some bounties for the leaders of the Fiends that apparently even their own people can't take care of.

Edited March 12, 2014 by Fistandilius

[peadar1987]

The NCR have only been in the Mojave less than a decade, and it's still the frontline of a war. I reckon in California proper, there is a lot of rebuilding going on, probably factories, shops, safe roads, new houses. That requires organisation and security, which there isn't much of in the Mojave.

As for the Fiends, I think it's a consequence of NCR's strategy. The Legion move fast, hit hard, and disappear into the countryside. It's bred a fear of deploying too large a force anywhere to counter military threats like the Fiends. If Oliver commits a large force to take them out, they'll take huge casualties and the Legion can attack when they're distracted. For what it's worth, it's what I would do as well. The Fiends are only held together by the charisma of a few leaders. Cut off the head, and the rest will tear itself to bits. That's what happens in the game, you kill Motor Runner, and the fiends are a spent force, without the NCR getting sucked into high-loss urban warfare against an enemy that know the terrain in South Vegas.

[MarchUntoTorment]

Also, in most instances, the houses mightn't need much rebuilding. I mean, if the facade is cracked to hell, who cares? So long as it's a reasonably clear space, I doubt the inhabitants of the Mojave will much care as to its appearance.

[Fistandilius]

The NCR have only been in the Mojave less than a decade, and it's still the frontline of a war. I reckon in California proper, there is a lot of rebuilding going on, probably factories, shops, safe roads, new houses. That requires organisation and security, which there isn't much of in the Mojave.

 

 

Well, I guess it's really how you want to look at it. Is it poor storytelling by Obsidian, or is NCR just incompetent and it was intentional? NCR reached the Hover Dam in 2274, but didn't establish McCarron until a year later according to the Fallout Timeline. That's REALLY poor military strategy to establish a base of operations behind military lines. Your supply lines are then under constant attack, moral suffers, etc. etc. etc. I understand that they were trying to occupy Hoover DAM as quick as possible, but the first war for Hoover dam didn't take place untl 3 years later. They had 3 years to clear out the Fiends and establish supply lines. That's terrible military planning.

 

As for the Fiends, I think it's a consequence of NCR's strategy. The Legion move fast, hit hard, and disappear into the countryside. It's bred a fear of deploying too large a force anywhere to counter military threats like the Fiends. If Oliver commits a large force to take them out, they'll take huge casualties and the Legion can attack when they're distracted. For what it's worth, it's what I would do as well. The Fiends are only held together by the charisma of a few leaders. Cut off the head, and the rest will tear itself to bits. That's what happens in the game, you kill Motor Runner, and the fiends are a spent force, without the NCR getting sucked into high-loss urban warfare against an enemy that know the terrain in South Vegas.

 

 

Except that it doesn't. Story wise killing the three Fiend leaders is supposed to make them less of a threat, but the in game action tells a different story. The fiends don't stop spawning and NCR troops still die on a regular basis. Again... poor decisions by NCR, or poor work by Obsidian?

[kkk122]

IIRC Kimball's pet glory hound is a complete moron, who would not ever be a general in the first place without kissing Kimball's ass. He has his troops just hold the line and wants to defeat the Legion in one battle, thinking that will overshadow Hanlon. All in all, he's willing to pointlessly sacrifice the life of his troops just to make a name for himself. It's kinda necessary as with a competent leader (like Hanlon) the second battle would probably not even take place. It also serves as an example of NCR's corruption. It makes sense really: the Republic is corrupt -> the general keeps his job only because the president is his friend -> the general is an incompetent glory hound idiot -> the NCR is actually getting it's ass handed to it by an insane warlord and his army of skirt wearing rapists. So to answer your question: yes, the Republic is incompetent.