Clarification on object IDs...

[Buttitchski]

During the course of building my mod, I was grabbing objects from the object window and dragging them into my cell. To make some of these items "fit" into the mod, I edited their ids, not realizing it would change those item names for the rest of the fallout world. I did not see an option to copy or clone the objects so, I continued along until I realized what I was doing. I am pretty far along with the construction of my mod and, have a good number of items that have been altered; keys, utility worker id and some mainframes. Now these items are altered in the vanilla world and I didn't wish to "replace" these items, just create unique ones for the mod. :confused:

 

Example: I take TenpennysSuitKey and drag it into my mod. I change its ID and now it's JoesSuitKey. During gameplay, if the player gets to Tenpennys key before Joes key, the key will be labeled Joes and not Tenpennys. This would lead to obvious confusion and berating from the community. Not to mention it seems a bit more professional and demonstrates a better understanding of the tools. I want both to exist in the gameworld so that vanilla is unaffected by the introduction of my modification (outside of its intended purpose). Hope that made sense.

How can I remedy this situation? I do not wish to start over and do not want any vanilla elements altered. I cannot find a list of object ids to change them back to their original state. Is their a way to clone objects in the GECK that I am missing that allows me to copy/clone objects to create new ones?

 

BTW, I did a search and could not find a relevant thread on this topic. :thanks:

[nosisab]

During the course of building my mod, I was grabbing objects from the object window and dragging them into my cell. To make some of these items "fit" into the mod, I edited their ids, not realizing it would change those item names for the rest of the fallout world. I did not see an option to copy or clone the objects so, I continued along until I realized what I was doing. I am pretty far along with the construction of my mod and, have a good number of items that have been altered; keys, utility worker id and some mainframes. Now these items are altered in the vanilla world and I didn't wish to "replace" these items, just create unique ones for the mod. :confused:

 

Example: I take TenpennysSuitKey and drag it into my mod. I change its ID and now it's JoesSuitKey. During gameplay, if the player gets to Tenpennys key before Joes key, the key will be labeled Joes and not Tenpennys. This would lead to obvious confusion and berating from the community. Not to mention it seems a bit more professional and demonstrates a better understanding of the tools. I want both to exist in the gameworld so that vanilla is unaffected by the introduction of my modification (outside of its intended purpose). Hope that made sense.

How can I remedy this situation? I do not wish to start over and do not want any vanilla elements altered. I cannot find a list of object ids to change them back to their original state. Is their a way to clone objects in the GECK that I am missing that allows me to copy/clone objects to create new ones?

 

BTW, I did a search and could not find a relevant thread on this topic. :thanks:

when making them from templates, just chose to create new objectIDs instead editing the original.

For the objects you place in the cell window... they becomes 'unique' in the sense they receive a ReferenceID you can name at your will. Just be aware to not changing their 'base' their ObjectID.

 

Now, for the already edited... depend on the way they were changed... If the BSAs are untouched and you did not change anything from the patches you can try deleting your modified items, saving the game without your mod, after an archive invalidation... and redo the work doing as explained above. Else reinstalling the game (after saving your work) may be the simpler and quicker way, I fear.

 

PS: Understanding the differences between ObjectID and ReferenceID is something the modder MUST do.

The first is a template, a father object that 'Never' appears in the actual game (even functions that call for them, like the additem ObjectID #, will be acting over the 'instances' of them and create that instances with an 'unique' ReferenceID).

And that ReferenceID is something you can explicitly give to an object you place into the cell window and that permit you to treat it as an 'individual' object in game, or be generated by the engine automaticly.

[Buttitchski]

During the course of building my mod, I was grabbing objects from the object window and dragging them into my cell. To make some of these items "fit" into the mod, I edited their ids, not realizing it would change those item names for the rest of the fallout world. I did not see an option to copy or clone the objects so, I continued along until I realized what I was doing. I am pretty far along with the construction of my mod and, have a good number of items that have been altered; keys, utility worker id and some mainframes. Now these items are altered in the vanilla world and I didn't wish to "replace" these items, just create unique ones for the mod. :confused:

 

Example: I take TenpennysSuitKey and drag it into my mod. I change its ID and now it's JoesSuitKey. During gameplay, if the player gets to Tenpennys key before Joes key, the key will be labeled Joes and not Tenpennys. This would lead to obvious confusion and berating from the community. Not to mention it seems a bit more professional and demonstrates a better understanding of the tools. I want both to exist in the gameworld so that vanilla is unaffected by the introduction of my modification (outside of its intended purpose). Hope that made sense.

How can I remedy this situation? I do not wish to start over and do not want any vanilla elements altered. I cannot find a list of object ids to change them back to their original state. Is their a way to clone objects in the GECK that I am missing that allows me to copy/clone objects to create new ones?

 

BTW, I did a search and could not find a relevant thread on this topic. :thanks:

when making them from templates, just chose to create new objectIDs instead editing the original.

For the objects you place in the cell window... they becomes 'unique' in the sense they receive a ReferenceID you can name at your will. Just be aware to not changing their 'base' their ObjectID.

 

Now, for the already edited... depend on the way they were changed... If the BSAs are untouched and you did not change anything from the patches you can try deleting your modified items, saving the game without your mod, after an archive invalidation... and redo the work doing as explained above. Else reinstalling the game (after saving your work) may be the simpler and quicker way, I fear.

 

 

I just checked and, without my mod loaded, objects whose ids were changed are normal. I changed the id for red pass card to be bank worker id. When I load the mod, even though I haven't retrieved the bank worker id, I have one because red pass card was in my inventory. Is there a way to fix it? When I have the GECK loaded, red pass card no longer exists in the object window so, deleting it from the mod and trying to replace it won't work because with the mod loaded (in the GECK), red pass card has been changed in fallout3.esm' (at least that's my interpretation). Can I simply change bank worker id back to red pass card, add it again and only change the name when editing the base ID? I'm still a bit confused on this topic. When I go to "edit base" I see no options to duplicate or clone so I just changed the name and ID to suit my purpose without realizing what affect it would have.

 

Also, I apologize for my newbishness but, I don't understand what you mean by "when making them from templates". Up to this point, all I've done was drag existing objects into the render window, the way they explain in the tutorial. Granted, I did not follow the tutorial to the letter, :blush: and some information just isn't present.

[nosisab]

During the course of building my mod, I was grabbing objects from the object window and dragging them into my cell. To make some of these items "fit" into the mod, I edited their ids, not realizing it would change those item names for the rest of the fallout world. I did not see an option to copy or clone the objects so, I continued along until I realized what I was doing. I am pretty far along with the construction of my mod and, have a good number of items that have been altered; keys, utility worker id and some mainframes. Now these items are altered in the vanilla world and I didn't wish to "replace" these items, just create unique ones for the mod. :confused:

 

Example: I take TenpennysSuitKey and drag it into my mod. I change its ID and now it's JoesSuitKey. During gameplay, if the player gets to Tenpennys key before Joes key, the key will be labeled Joes and not Tenpennys. This would lead to obvious confusion and berating from the community. Not to mention it seems a bit more professional and demonstrates a better understanding of the tools. I want both to exist in the gameworld so that vanilla is unaffected by the introduction of my modification (outside of its intended purpose). Hope that made sense.

How can I remedy this situation? I do not wish to start over and do not want any vanilla elements altered. I cannot find a list of object ids to change them back to their original state. Is their a way to clone objects in the GECK that I am missing that allows me to copy/clone objects to create new ones?

 

BTW, I did a search and could not find a relevant thread on this topic. :thanks:

when making them from templates, just chose to create new objectIDs instead editing the original.

For the objects you place in the cell window... they becomes 'unique' in the sense they receive a ReferenceID you can name at your will. Just be aware to not changing their 'base' their ObjectID.

 

Now, for the already edited... depend on the way they were changed... If the BSAs are untouched and you did not change anything from the patches you can try deleting your modified items, saving the game without your mod, after an archive invalidation... and redo the work doing as explained above. Else reinstalling the game (after saving your work) may be the simpler and quicker way, I fear.

 

 

I just checked and, without my mod loaded, objects whose ids were changed are normal. I changed the id for red pass card to be bank worker id. When I load the mod, even though I haven't retrieved the bank worker id, I have one because red pass card was in my inventory. Is there a way to fix it? When I have the GECK loaded, red pass card no longer exists in the object window so, deleting it from the mod and trying to replace it won't work because with the mod loaded (in the GECK), red pass card has been changed in fallout3.esm. Can I simply change bank worker id back to red pass card, add it again and only change the name when editing the base ID? I'm still a bit confused on this topic. When I go to "edit base" I see no options to duplicate or clone so I just changed the name and ID to suit my purpose without realizing what affect it would have.

although I posted a PS in the former reply, this can be put more clearly: If you create an item with you own objectID, even if it uses the meshes and textures from the original they will be treated the way you want. A good measure is prefixing you own objects with something that identifies them with your mod, to all them.

Those base object will be the template for all occurrences of them in game, so changing anything on an objectID will affect all instances of them in game. This mean you shall never edit a baseID unless you want to change all, already existent or yet to be instances of it. Now, when you place an object in the window you are actually creating an instance of that base item and that instance can be named in a explicit way. This is done editing the corresponding field that is in it's properties, for that particular object.

 

What I think you want is creating an item changing only a few properties from an existent one... so all you need to do is choose to CREATE a new objectID when editing the vanilla one, not EDIT the properties of this objectID. This implies you give it new name in the ID field (you may just prefix it with something that identifies your mod or a completely new name). The NAME field can be anything you want, even the original one. This way any change you do to this new object will not affect the vanilla.

PS: And is in this new object you'll make the changes you want is is it you'll drag to the view window.

[Buttitchski]

During the course of building my mod, I was grabbing objects from the object window and dragging them into my cell. To make some of these items "fit" into the mod, I edited their ids, not realizing it would change those item names for the rest of the fallout world. I did not see an option to copy or clone the objects so, I continued along until I realized what I was doing. I am pretty far along with the construction of my mod and, have a good number of items that have been altered; keys, utility worker id and some mainframes. Now these items are altered in the vanilla world and I didn't wish to "replace" these items, just create unique ones for the mod. :confused:

 

Example: I take TenpennysSuitKey and drag it into my mod. I change its ID and now it's JoesSuitKey. During gameplay, if the player gets to Tenpennys key before Joes key, the key will be labeled Joes and not Tenpennys. This would lead to obvious confusion and berating from the community. Not to mention it seems a bit more professional and demonstrates a better understanding of the tools. I want both to exist in the gameworld so that vanilla is unaffected by the introduction of my modification (outside of its intended purpose). Hope that made sense.

How can I remedy this situation? I do not wish to start over and do not want any vanilla elements altered. I cannot find a list of object ids to change them back to their original state. Is their a way to clone objects in the GECK that I am missing that allows me to copy/clone objects to create new ones?

 

BTW, I did a search and could not find a relevant thread on this topic. :thanks:

when making them from templates, just chose to create new objectIDs instead editing the original.

For the objects you place in the cell window... they becomes 'unique' in the sense they receive a ReferenceID you can name at your will. Just be aware to not changing their 'base' their ObjectID.

 

Now, for the already edited... depend on the way they were changed... If the BSAs are untouched and you did not change anything from the patches you can try deleting your modified items, saving the game without your mod, after an archive invalidation... and redo the work doing as explained above. Else reinstalling the game (after saving your work) may be the simpler and quicker way, I fear.

 

 

I just checked and, without my mod loaded, objects whose ids were changed are normal. I changed the id for red pass card to be bank worker id. When I load the mod, even though I haven't retrieved the bank worker id, I have one because red pass card was in my inventory. Is there a way to fix it? When I have the GECK loaded, red pass card no longer exists in the object window so, deleting it from the mod and trying to replace it won't work because with the mod loaded (in the GECK), red pass card has been changed in fallout3.esm. Can I simply change bank worker id back to red pass card, add it again and only change the name when editing the base ID? I'm still a bit confused on this topic. When I go to "edit base" I see no options to duplicate or clone so I just changed the name and ID to suit my purpose without realizing what affect it would have.

although I posted a PS in the former reply, this can be put more clearly: If you create an item with you own objectID, even if it uses the meshes and textures from the original they will be treated the way you want. A good measure is prefixing you own objects with something that identifies them with your mod, to all them.

Those base object will be the template for all occurrences of them in game, so changing anything on an objectID will affect all instances of them in game. This mean you shall never edit a baseID unless you want to change all, already existent or yet to be instances of it. Now, when you place an object in the window you are actually creating an instance of that base item and that instance can be named in a explicit way. This is done editing the corresponding field that is in it's properties, for that particular object.

 

What I think you want is creating an item changing only a few properties from an existent one... so all you need to do is choose to CREATE a new objectID when editing the vanilla one, not EDIT the properties of this objectID. This implies you give it new name in the ID field (you may just prefix it with something that identifies your mod or a completely new name. The NAME field can be anything you want, even the original one. This way any change you do to this new object will not affect the vanilla.

PS: And is this new object you'll drag to the view window.

 

I did exactly what your saying and I think I understand it now. :ermm: One more question (I think) ;) Since I have already altered some objects in such a way that they have been changed throughout the whole gameworld, can I go back and change them to what they were and start over for those particular objects?

 

And :thanks: for your help.

[nosisab]

To the already changed objects the only way is returning their former properties, And this is simpler to say than to do. Sadly even after it, your mod will treat them as edited and to 'clear' it you will need to use some utility that do this kind of housekeeping (something I don't know if fallout already have) or do it 'by hand', selecting your mod in the GECK but without actually loading it click the "Details" bottom and mark with an "i", for ignore, all the entries that should not be there... afterwards load the mod as normal, do any bogus change and save your mod again.

 

As you can see, fixing the mess is aways harder than doing the right way from the beginning.

[Buttitchski]

To the already changed objects the only way is returning their former properties, And this is simpler to say than to do. Sadly even after it, your mod will treat them as edited and to 'clear' it you will need to use some utility that do this kind of housekeeping (something I don't know if fallout already have) or do it 'by hand', selecting your mod in the GECK but without actually loading it click the "Details" bottom and mark with an "i", for ignore, all the entries that should not be there... afterwards load the mod as normal, do any bogus change and save your mod again.

 

As you can see, fixing the mess is aways harder than doing the right way from the beginning.

 

 

I went into the GECK and took one of the items (Red Pass Card) and changed it back to what it should be and then created a new id from it and it worked fine. Now I have the old pre-existing object AND the newly created one. Luckily it was only a few objects I altered in such a way so, it shouldn't be to hard to fix. Thanks again for taking the time to help me out. Much Kudos!!!

 

After looking around in GECK a bit more I think I now have a good understanding of the object ID thing. Correct me if I am wrong...

 

When dragging an item into your cell, if you then go to "edit ID" and change its name, it will change that items name in the entire FO3 in-game world. If I also change its ID (it will ask to create a new form), I am creating a new object with the unique characteristics I gave it AND retaining the object it was created from in its original state.

 

Is that correct?

 

After further inspection, I now know that during mod creation, I followed proper procedure without even realizing it. For most of the items that needed a new identity I actually did create new IDs. It was only a few items that I only renamed so, I went in and fixed it no problem. Now all is well in the Fallout universe. :D

 

The more I understand how this works, the more addicted I become...