Destruction magic tips

[Lord Garon]

 

 

I see a lot of new mage players select Magicka on level up early on, thinking it's the most important thing for a mage. Its not; take more health than magicka early on.

 

Hmm. I'm not so sure about that. I make a set of rules for my characters, based on Daggerfall and Morrowind classes and AD&D principles. So for a Mage I would increase M, H and S in an 8:2:0 ratio, Warriors in a 0:5:5, Paladins and Rangers in a 2:4:4, Thieves 0:3:6 (more carry weight and Stamina for Sneak Power Attacks), Bards and Nightblades in a 3:3:3 ratio etc. I think my Druid was in a 5:4:2 ratio and skills and perks were planned out from the start.

 

It IS true that you could play a Mage by just increasing Health and waiting until your Alchemy and Enchanting was Mega-Uber and making items that reduce casting cost of your main schools to zero, but that is not really role-playing the class idea to my mind.

 

And recreating Daggerfalll/Morrowind and AD&D classes is like a side-hobby to my Skyrim experience.

 

~.~

 

 

Well, any way that works is great. I only play on Master and Legendary anymore so Health is my prime requisite. I don't mind running away when things are over my head, but I HATE random archer 1-shots. I lost almost all health (410) from a single bandit arrow just this morning. Now, that's probably somewhat "realistic"; a single arrow can kill. But I play hardcore and its a real pain to lose a character, something I've done so many times I can't count the number. I only take health until lvl 10, then something like 1:4 or 1:5 Magicka:Health until, well, until I win or die. I have been known to take some stamina as a mage to help with Olympic level sprinting under extreme duress. I hit a mammoth I couldn't see behind some rocks with Ice Storm once; I then had an assassin, two giants, two mammoths, and a pack of wolves I ran into, all trying to be the first to kill me. I think there was even some mud crabs in there for a while; I wasn't paying attention where I was going or what I was running over. Luckily, the over-flying dragon just kept going. Situations like that makes me question the wisdom of non-leveled destruction magic. Fortunately, I had some extra stamina (originally taken to help carry more loot) and wound up winning the Gold in Mob Kiting that day.

 

My "pure" mages don't take perks outside of the Magic Schools. I used to take Alchemy perks cause it "seemed" like a traditional mage skill, but don't anymore cause it isn't the mage crafting skill in Skyrim. A significant handicap, I must say. Every NPC mage in Skyrim spends half their time at an Alchemy station; I guess that's not potion ingredients they're grinding up with that mortar and pestle. ;)

 

Whoops, rambling. All I meant to say was that Health is very important to new mages in Skyrim. At higher difficulty levels especially, almost anything can 1-shot an unprepared mage.

[Shadeybladey]

 

 

Well, any way that works is great. I only play on Master and Legendary anymore so Health is my prime requisite.

 

 

 

Yeesh! In 20 months I haven't dared to go above Adept! But I do use a lot of AI and difficulty mods, because that old Baldur's Gate style of difficulty setting of "You take double damage but deal only half-damage" is not really an intelligent way to increase difficulty. Although, I did enjoy The Heart of Winter on the Heart of Fury settings in Icewind Dale.

 

 

 

 

Whoops, rambling. All I meant to say was that Health is very important to new mages in Skyrim. At higher difficulty levels especially, almost anything can 1-shot an unprepared mage.

 

 

That's why they should never be unprepared and never travel alone! :D

 

I enjoyed your story of the enraged mobs. I've been using Alternate Start recently, in Iron Man, dead is dead as a Dunmer Nightblade. I tried a hunter in the woods and my camp was right next to the wolves from SkyTEST, and the roads are teaming with Immersive Patrols, many of which are hostile. So I tried a Left for Dead start, and I had no armour, no weapons and an Immediate Dragon with Dragon Combat Overhaul overhead.

 

So I tried an Outlaw in the Wilds and started at Four Skull Lookout. I had to hide inside for ages as a dragon killed everything for miles around, then fled down the mountain and the bugger saw me and flamed off half her hit points, just as I got to Blind Cliff Cave, which was riddled with Foresworn. If not for my Flames spell, she'd be dead again.

 

I can't believe she actually made it to level 2. And most of that was Sneaking to hide from the dragon!

 

But that's the great thing about TES. You can play just about anything you want, although the lack of skills etc between Morrowind and Skyrim means there are some things you cannot do without heavy mods. Like play a Monk or Acrobat etc.

 

~.~

[LittleFighter]

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/34473/? this mod here might help you live longer.

[marciosilva]

Wooa... thats a nice thread here now, with all the comments. I just started a small talk about using destruction magic, now, look at it!

 

Ok, I know there are too many differences from Skyrim to several MMOs out there, and each game should have each own setting and game mechanics. Not going to start another fight here, because there are too many opinions on this and I'm getting along with the game for now. Playing on Apprentice, since way too many mobs on Novice that were too easy.

 

My problem now? Even on Apprentice, most comon bandits and wild animals are easy to kill, but Dragon Priests and some isolated bosses, are plain HARD and HARSH. I could fight 2 dragons at the same time, and they would be easier than one of the other guys alone... So I stay on Apprentice for now. NOT trying Adept for sure!

 

Now, I have one question just to make sure: I use Fireball as a constant attack spell, dual wielding it uses to 1 hit kill most common folk, 2 hits to kill bears and the likes. But I also have Incinerate, wich should be much better, since it requires much more magicka and its a higher level spell. I know as you say, the higher level spells are not well balanced, so is this one of the cases? When I hit mobs with incinerate, they almost seem unharmed... Fireball, as a weaker spell, even has a blast radius, so I don't even need to use a crosshair...

[MidevalGuy]

My problem now? Even on Apprentice, most comon bandits and wild animals are easy to kill, but Dragon Priests and some isolated bosses, are plain HARD and HARSH. I could fight 2 dragons at the same time, and they would be easier than one of the other guys alone... So I stay on Apprentice for now. NOT trying Adept for sure!

 

 

Dragon Priests are boss-level characters, so they should be harder to kill than common bandits, and wild animals. Dragons (vanilla) are ridiculously under powered for what they are supposed to be, but that's a whole other discussion, so we'll leave it at that.

 

 

 

Now, I have one question just to make sure: I use Fireball as a constant attack spell, dual wielding it uses to 1 hit kill most common folk, 2 hits to kill bears and the likes. But I also have Incinerate, wich should be much better, since it requires much more magicka and its a higher level spell. I know as you say, the higher level spells are not well balanced, so is this one of the cases? When I hit mobs with incinerate, they almost seem unharmed... Fireball, as a weaker spell, even has a blast radius, so I don't even need to use a crosshair...

 

Fireball is an offensive projectile spell with an AOE (Area of Effect) and it's main purpose is dealing damage to ranged foes. Incinerate is a finisher spell that should be used on a single foe once they are weakened. If you want proper crowd control, use the larger AOE spells like Blizzard, Flame Cloak, etc. Runes are basically magic claymores, but they require leading enemies into them, obviously. AOE spells like Flame Cloak and Blizzard ignore LOS (Line of Sight) and go through walls, too. So, you can fry or freeze Drugar and other enemies on the other side of an iron crypt door before you even open it depending on range.

 

The one thing you may misunderstand about Mages is they are not tanks and are not supposed to be able to just stand in one spot spamming a certain spell (fireball, lightening, etc). The Mage is the "thinking person's build", or the tactical build because they can dish out a lot of damage, but only if the player knows how to manage their weaknesses, too. As a result, they require more "turn based" thinking during a battle... Pausing the game to use your favorites menu to drink a healing potion, or magicka regen potion... And this works to your advantage because you can dictate the pace of the battle accordingly. Mages are high maintenance characters, but the rewards when they prevail are more satisfying because it took brains to out think your enemies instead of just brute force.

 

If you're struggling, try this:

 

1) Always cast a Mage Armor Spell (Oakflesh, Ironflesh, etc.) before going into battle.

 

1a) Conjur up something to protect you e.g. Flame Antronach, Familar, etc. The Sanguine Rose is perfect for this strategy since it is a staff which means ZERO magica cost to you.

 

2) Fire off a single fireball to aggro the enemies and then FALL BACK behind your followers, conjured minions.

 

3) Once the mob engages your followers, this is where the mage shines because you can hit them with AOE spells, spells that weaken their stamina (Ice-based spells), or just pure destruction spells like fire, or lightening. The Mage is almost like a support specialist in this regard if he/she plays it properly and can avoid almost no damage even in the hairiest of battles.

 

4) Always be moving and try and FLANK the mob that is surrounding your followers and minions. Hit them from behind while your followers hit them from the front is what can make the difference between a one minute skirmish and a three battle even with a group of enemies.

 

5) Wear armor. I know it seems lore-breaking since mages want to run around in their stylish robes looking like Gandalf, but until you are at Gandalf's level protection should be your number one priority if you are just getting used to playing a Mage (because subconsciously you are having to unlearn what other classes and other games teach you like go towards enemies, or just stand stationary spamming attacvks until they are dead).

 

6) Use other skills to position yourself and give you a real tactical advantage.

 

Sneak and Archery are complimentary skills and even a Mage who uses spells primarily should develop at least some mid-level archery & sneak skills because it will help them thin out the herd if they come across a mob of enemies they know they can't win against in a one-on-one assault. There is no shame is doing a sneak attack with a bow on a wizard at an altar at the far end of the chamber when there are three, or four other wizards roaming around the rest of the room. The Wizard at the altar is probably the leader and will deal high damage to you if he is not taken care of first. This is what real tactics consist of and don't just limit yourself because a Mage is supposed to play a certain way based on the name alone.

 

By the way, I am currently a level 16, Altmer Mage which is why I am interested in this thread since I am also emphasizing Destruction and refining some of my own tactics as a result :)

[marciosilva]

Thanks for the massive tips!

 

I already follow a few of them, but not all, I must say. I tend to charge in at distance when I know I have only a few minor bandits, they are usually knocked over with a Dual Cast Fireball (I aim to their average position, and *sometimes* I hit them all at once). The survivors I just burn them until they are crawling at my feet, or just throw a Shout at them, depending on the situation (fire if there is a frost atronach; ice if there is a fire one; or I may as well Ice Form them all and finish one by one at ease - this is my favorite).

 

Before I face Dragon Priests, and I know their location, because I have a small mod that indicates them, I cast those mage protections and I summon whatever I have (still trying to raise my conjuration to get myself an Atronach (and I have not met Sam yet, so the Sanguine Rose will have to wait).

 

And about the armor, there was a time when I used one, the Vampire armor of Destruction. But when I installed a small perk-adjustment mod that gives a small bit of penalty to magicka regen by wearing armor, I've managed to buy an expensive Expert Robes of Destruction to maximize my casting ability. This same mod improved the enchanting skill such a way, that I end up making several items to give Magicka and Magicka Regen to high values (this avoids me the potion-spamming that I hate in the middle of a fight).

 

I'm not too bad for now, actually. My only real problems are related to the vanilla borked leveling system. I mean, Dragons are easier to kill than human casters (and I'm refering to regular mages I come across sometimes)? This has the potential to be *very* annoying.

[MidevalGuy]

I suppose the most obvious tip anybody can give you is to do the College of Winterhold Questline ASAP.

 

You'll get a lot of magic gear that will boost your current stats, plus a special reward at the very end ;)

 

It's also one of the more interesting (IMO) quest lines and you also gain access to fellow mage followers who will level the playing field in obvious ways if you're still struggling. J'Zargo is a battle mage and he has no level cap which means you can use him all the way until the end of the game and he'll keep up with you and scaled enemies. There is also a powerful mage in Riften, Marcurio, who you can hire as well, for the standard fee of 500 gold. Get yourself a magic posse and just roll through the game like a Boss ;)

 

Be sure to install the restored (missing) quests before you enroll at the college:

 

-Research Thief

-Rogue Wizard

-Missing Apprentices

 

Also, if you really want to take your Magic play through to the very end, do the Expert Level spell challenges given by various professors once you reach that skill level (100).

[marciosilva]

I don't really need those quests now, I've started the college questline.

 

And I've thought about having a follower all the time, but they are thrown away to the floor by my AoEs... Can't do.. lol

 

*** SPOILER ***

 

I can use Serana's help now because the Dawnguard questline, but I like to play solo. Followers tend to bork things up. A while ago I was doing Malacath quest with Yamarz and Serana with me. They got into a fight with eachother, I had to load a previous save and tell serana to wait by the cave entrance so I complete the quest myself; while they were fighting one another, I couldn't kill Yamarz (he only drops essential state after the giant is killed and starts to talk with me; he didn't stop fighting Serana, so I couldn't kill him, and complete the quest).

Edited November 13, 2013 by marciosilva

[Lord Garon]

Midevalguy says to move around and I think that is the biggest "secret" for low level mages. And he nailed the "support" role. For a mage, paranoia is a survival trait.

 

I pulled up an old Barbarian save (light armor, 2-h build) just to test a warrior type after several months of mage only play. The guy is ridiculously OP now, but the character hasn't changed at all; my basic playstyle has. I used to play him like a barbarian; all-out, single-minded hack and slash. I never gave a thought with him to terrain, obstacles, high ground, distractions, isolating bad guys, manuvering around, backing up, or any of those things which hardcore mage play requires. I, almost surgically, cleared Faldar's Tooth with the guy this morning. I have to admit that permanent defense you don't have to think about and an offense that actually changes the Bandit's health bars (I was on Legendary, but he has a "good" sword and max 2-h skill) was kinda fun. But not having a ranged attack felt really weird. It was also strange not having a summons spell and I had to constantly think about distracting the bad guys some other way. "Hey, Lydia, is that a septim on the floor over there?" Still, he mowed down the entire fort with little effort, taking little serious damage. It's a lttle Zen-like that my mages actually taught my 2-h Barbarian how to fight better.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Lord Garon

[Shadeybladey]

My Dunmer Nightblade is now level 3 on Adept.

 

Normally, I would perk up Illusion and Sneak on a character like this, but as I used Alternate Start - Live Another Life, I began as a Bandit at

Four Skulls Lookout

and had to hide from an Immediate Dragon with Dragon Combat Overhaul while it killed my "gang". There is no way to get specific new spells until I walk to civilisation. So all I have is Healing, Flames and Sparks and my once-a-day Ancestor Wrath racial power.

 

Finally, I sneaked out, took all their gear, snuck down the side of the mountain and across the river and got chased by the dragon into

Blind Cliff Cave

. One breath from it nearly killed me.

 

So now I have an irritated dragon up my arse and a bunch of Forsworn in front of me. So I hang about until I've healed up and sneak through the place, with a combination of sword and flames. Luckily, the first Forsworn fell to a Flames spell as she was standing in a pool of oil. Even more luckily, I did not set off the trap that drops a lantern into the oil, otherwise the Traps Make Noise mod would have brought some of her tribe running, instead of them saying "Was that a rat?"

 

So now I have some Forsworn light armour and a sword, which are better than anything the bandits had (my Nightblades don't use bows).

 

So I gradually make it through the ruined castle and get up to the top, taking each enemy one at a time where possible. Luckily, I had some healing potions. But now I have to eat and drink because of RND or I have to fight with skill penalties. All I had to drink was some brandy, so I am hopelessly drunk, blurred double vision and falling over everywhere with penalties to almost every skill. But there is nowhere to sleep, so I have to wander for a bit until I am just "Dizzy". Luckily, this slightly drunk state gives me an alcoholic, false confidence damage resistance bonus until I am sober again.

 

So I level up and raise Magicka and realise I need to perk Destruction rather then Sneak or illusion. Novice Destruction allows me to keep my Flames spell up for twice as long, and as the enemies will now also be a little tougher, I break with my own tradition and perk it.

 

Getting into the next tower was easy enough. I realise I have never been here before, much less at level 2, as there is a Hagraven in a cage. She offers a deal to kill her sister, so I agree, and she leads me through all the traps and pulls all the right levers and I help her kill her Hagraven sister and her evil minions.

 

Instead of turning on me as I expected, she gives me a staff which does 40 points of Fire damage. Useful!

 

So I leave her to it (I am playing Dead is Dead Iron Man, so I don't save and see if I can kill her, as I am sure I can't on my own). If I had not sided with her, her sister and followers would certainly have killed me.

 

Back outside, the dragon has gone and some Immersive Patrols Dawnguard come by and I buy some torches with one of the bartering mods. Some interiors are a bit too dark with Darker Interiors and I don't have a Candlelight or Magelight spell.

 

I decide that following them up the road would be the safest bet, and as we are passing a mine they clash with more Forsworn. I help out and loot all the bodies. Shame I can't use the crossbows!

 

So I go into the mine to clear it out and find my Dunmer blood and it's 50% Resistance to Fire Damage is more than useful. I level up again and decide to perk Apprentice Destruction, in readiness for a Fire Bolt spell. If I cannot find one, I'll be able to buy it somewhere.

 

So I continue on my merry way and get to Markarth, loaded with loot.

 

True, this is not a pure Mage as she uses light armour and a Forsworn sword, and I have better loot than a Vanilla start. But the beginning was certainly a lot harder than Helgen, even with the spiders and the Realistic Poison mod that makes all poisonous creatures much more deadly. What made the difference was the Flames spell and the Fire Resistance.

 

My unarmed, unarmoured Druid did Bleak Falls Barrow alone on Adept at level 2 and came out at level 6 with a Word of Power. She spent a lot of time running away and hiding behind a rock or something to heal up while hostiles looked for her until they lost interest. But she did have a few extra spells and potions from the Riverwood Trader.

 

~.~