Ulfric might not be racist after all

[Lachdonin]

Ulfric is no more racist than anyone else. That doesn't mean he's not racist by OUR standards. The only people who are not explicitly racist are the Imperials, and they're still subversively racist. Well... and the Thalmor, but their bias goes well beyond Racism.

[ZeketheGeek]

Ulfric is no more racist than anyone else. That doesn't mean he's not racist by OUR standards. The only people who are not explicitly racist are the Imperials, and they're still subversively racist. Well... and the Thalmor, but their bias goes well beyond Racism.

Thalmor are more hoity-toity about intellect than race. Here are my thoughts after going through many character runs;

 

Here be *possible, most likely* Civil War quest spoilers

• Ulfric is a jerk, until you prove yourself, and even after that, he thinks him above you really.
• Even upon mentioning Helgen, his attitude is pretty much 'dragons. meh, I've seen worse.'
• Galmar sent you to a frozen wasteland and didn't expect you to come back, but he is much more grateful once you help out.
• When fighting them, they tend to mosey out and just surround you, hitting anything in between you and their blade. (Or the oh-so-annoying Iron Warhamer "Super-Duper-Skull-Bashing" killmoves.) ]:<
• During the war-meetings between sides (this is dependent on progression in the main quest and civil war, it does not always occur.), Ulfric, no matter which side you are on, treats Tullius like dirt. Insults him, and does not want to co-operate, and frequently just talks about "freedom!, Imperial scum!, 'murica!"

Then there is the imperial side, which is my preference.

• General Tullius is respectful from the start.
• Upon mentioning Helgen, despite whatever your character did to get in that situation, he acknowledges that you were one of the few who survived, and that the Legion could benefit from your talent.
• Rikka also doesn't send you nearly as far away from HQ as Galmar, and she pays last rites to Ulfric upon you killing him.
• When fighting against Legionnaires, they are well-disciplined, organized, and capable warriors. Their ranks are comprised of differently ranked warrior classes with their respectful equipment.
• During the war-meetings, Tullius chooses to speak in a polite and calm manner, but becomes quite curt after Ulfric starts bashing him, and he does not insult Ulfric, if my memory serves correctly.
• Also, it is worth mentioning that in holds captured by Stormcloaks such as Whiterun, asking citizens and shopkeepers if their presence has changed anything, I mostly found the people said the soldiers were annoying, smelled, took stuff because they could, etc.

Anyway, that's just what I think, having gone through both sides.

 

Edit: With all that said, Bethesda designed whichever side you took to constantly bash the other. It is, IMO, a psychological way for you to hear it often, and be convinced by it. Thus making it seem more personal.

Edited November 25, 2013 by ZeketheGeek

[Lachdonin]

Thalmor are more hoity-toity about intellect than race.

 

The Thalmor have no real-world parallels. They don't care so much about appearance, intelligence, race or even political affiliation. They don't give a rats ass if you're Nord, or Argonian or even Sload. What they hate is mortality. They hate everything that LIVES simply because it can DIE. And they hate Talos most of all because he keeps the world, and the cycle of mortality, stable. They even hate themselves because of their own cursed mortality.

[ZeketheGeek]

They hate everything that LIVES simply because it can DIE.

 

Lol, you got me. This is so true now that I think about it.

[LobselVith66]

Actions speak louder than words...all you need to do is see how Argonians and Dunmer are treated in Windhelm to see that Ulfric is racist, or at least allows Nord racism to run rampant in his hold/city.

The Dunmer have been living in the Gray Quarter since before Ulfric was even born, after the eruption of Red Mountain, and even the Legion controlled Windhelm keeps Argonians out due to the hostilities with the Dunmer and Nords.

 

And I think it's ridiculous to blame Ulfric for the views of other people, especially ones that have been held across generations. The willingness of the Stormcloaks to accept non-Nords, and Ulfric's own acceptance of a non-Nord protagonist, speak loud enough for his views.

[Lachdonin]

 

The Dunmer have been living in the Gray Quarter since before Ulfric was even born, after the eruption of Red Mountain, and even the Legion controlled Windhelm keeps Argonians out due to the hostilities with the Dunmer and Nords.

 

And I think it's ridiculous to blame Ulfric for the views of other people, especially ones that have been held across generations. The willingness of the Stormcloaks to accept non-Nords, and Ulfric's own acceptance of a non-Nord protagonist, speak loud enough for his views.

 

 

At the same time, we are told that Ulfric is more concerned with his own conflict, and the views and traditions of his Nordic followers, than with his non-Nord citizens. The man who takes over as Jarl (can't remember his name) notes that Ulfric knowingly ignored the poverty and concerns of the Dunmer in the Grey Quarter. Again, actions speak louder than words, and Ulfric, despite not being responsible for their lodging int he first place, did nothing to help the Dunmer in his own city.

 

As for Ulfric's acceptance... There is a point where leeway must be made for the sake of gameplay. Based on everything else we know about Ulfric and the Stormcloaks, it is highly unlikely that, in universe, a non-Nord Dovahkiin was accepted so readily.

[fraquar]

Like the Imperial who takes over as Jarl of Windhelm does anything to help the Dunmer.......

[dragonchris152]

Like the Imperial who takes over as Jarl of Windhelm does anything to help the Dunmer.......

He was a Nord first off. Second off he did try to do things, but politics get in the way (beth didn't feel like editing the cell obviously). I do remember him sending you off to go kill bandits who where attacking khajit caravans however.

 

 

Actions speak louder than words...all you need to do is see how Argonians and Dunmer are treated in Windhelm to see that Ulfric is racist, or at least allows Nord racism to run rampant in his hold/city.

The Dunmer have been living in the Gray Quarter since before Ulfric was even born, after the eruption of Red Mountain, and even the Legion controlled Windhelm keeps Argonians out due to the hostilities with the Dunmer and Nords.

 

And I think it's ridiculous to blame Ulfric for the views of other people, especially ones that have been held across generations. The willingness of the Stormcloaks to accept non-Nords, and Ulfric's own acceptance of a non-Nord protagonist, speak loud enough for his views.

 

Ulfric's willing to do anything to win. The player is more so a tool to victory for both sides really. And Windhelm was ruled by his farther and most likely his grandfarther before him, so racism runs in the family. Now I'm not saying Ulfric is extremely racist, but he is just as bad as say the dark elves from morrowind.

[chicky540]

all hail the empire!

 

so, since i killed the real emperor, what are my chances to ... lets say, get a promotion? im dragonborn, legate, harbinger, archmage, dawnguard, riekling-chieftain, and so on and so on... THE THRONE IS MINE! *muwahaha!*

[fraquar]

"He was a Nord first off. Second off he did try to do things, but politics get in the way (beth didn't feel like editing the cell obviously). I do remember him sending you off to go kill bandits who where attacking khajit caravans however."

 

For some reason quotes aren't working.

 

 

Windhelm was set up (i.e. it's a representation) for people to see it as a city that is harboring refugees. There is no Imperial city that could accommodate the Dunmer in mass numbers any better than Windhelm has. Put the Dunmer and Argonians in mass numbers in Solitude and you'd see the exact same thing - in fact, you probably would see them housed outside Solitude proper.

 

As for the politics, the extent of Ulfric's politics was running a CIVIL WAR. The extent of his successors politics is running the city - if politics get in the way of doing something for the Dunmer, then he might as well step down and relinquish the title because he has virtually NOTHING ELSE TO DO. Tulius and the Imperials are managing the war front.