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Need some help with mod load order...

Paxxis

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StormWolf01 Grand Master

StormWolf01

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Ok, so once you get thru the list.

Then you can try letting the mod manager sort thru it, and set up a working load order.

BUT. Load order items have effects in your save games. Hence why you're testing them out on duplicates of your toon.

 

After you sort the LO, test it again, on a DIFFERENT test char. Play that test char for a while, and see if there's any problems.

If you try playing it on the same char that you'd been testing them out on before the manager moves the LO all around, you may end up with CTD. Savegames get corrupted by large changes to the LO.

Part of why you only want to test new mods on test chars, and why you only want to test out a couple of mods at a time. (I get too excited, and forget that last part of that at times!)

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Paxxis

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Heyas Storm!

 

Sorry for the slow response. Real life. LOL

 

Ok, so here's what I have been able to discern so far. Clean install of the game, and I made a few "Test" saves, as you mentioned. Game played just fine. Started up Vortex (after I quit out of the game), and got sidetracked. Come back to the computer, and everything seemed to be in order, so I went through, and pulled all of the settlement mods out of the rotation.

 

Apparently, one of my kids decided to help me out, and clicked "Play". I did not know this had happened, and apparently it did nothing amazing. Once I had the mod order sorted (only companion and weapons/armor mods, along with the ones for character creation), I started up a save. And it worked. Not perfectly, mind you. I am getting, for lack of a better word, lag. Somewhat frequently, the game freezes for 1-5 seconds, and then continues as though nothing is wrong. And I forgot to reinstall (properly) CBBE, so I am getting odd skin texture glitches.

 

But... it plays!

 

I took a look at the directory, and sure enough, Vortex put all of the mod files back in the appropriate directories. I suppose I could uninstall the game, flush the INI files, and then uninstall Vortex...

 

My next test will be to run a new save using just the settlement mods (and the character creation mods), and see how well that plays.

 

Worst case scenario, I run two games, and will have to play around with the mod load before each playthrough. Not something I am looking forward to, but... LOL

 

If the settlement mods run ok, then I may start introducing a couple companions. Might nor worry about the weapon mods for that attempt.

 

And yes, I love Charlie's God Chest! It has been a must have for me ever since I found it. :D

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StormWolf01 Grand Master

StormWolf01

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Pax, this is good news so far, aside from that issue that you're having with lag!

No worries, I figured it may take you a while to get through some of this. The manual testing, really does take a while, even when you have a lot of free time. Which some of us don't ;)

 

HAHAHA I've had a few texture issues with CBBE too. So I can understand where you're coming from, on that one! I will say tho, that with CBBE, my personally I've found it better to install most of the files for that mod manually.

 

I could very much be wrong. And if so, somebody PLEASE correct me!! But I "Think" that Vortex has a "profiles" function. Which allows you to set up different load orders, for different characters. So........IF... you're forced to go down That road, that profiles function will save you some of your workflow, and mouse clicks.

I myself tho, would try to do the testing to see which of them work together and which ones don't first. Because, aside from maybe a cell that's altered with an item placement, there really shouldn't be a lot of interference between armor/weapon mods, and settlement stuff.

 

Unless we're talking about a problem with too much in your load order. The hard limit, and all that. :verymad:

 

The lag is concerning tho. Do you think that it's a hardware issue? How are the specs on your system? Are you shutting down unnecessary programs and tasks before you play?

(Defrag that drive, it will speed up the reading of hte files! HAHAHA JK!!)

 

One thing that I like about that cheat chest, is that it has a scoped rifle in it. A VERY mice MICE?? "NICE" thing to have to be able to scan the surroundings, when you leave the vault *caugh* and don't head straight for sanctuary *caugh*

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Paxxis

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Hey Storm!

 

My schedule has been shot these past couple of days, so trying to do this on little to no sleep has been... fun. LOL

 

I think all I had to do was reinstall CBBE and the skin texture I was originally using, so we will see what happens. If the problem persists, I will opt for a manual install, and see how it goes.

 

You were very much right. Vortex DOES have a profile manager. I was able to set up a couple temporary profiles, although now all of my saves are not showing up. LOL But that might not be an issue...

 

After reading through mod author's pages, and figuring out which mods no longer work as well as they once did, or which ones no longer play so nicely with others (and have no patches), OR which mods are out of date to the point where there are now newer mods which handle those specific things differently/better... Yes, it has been exhausting, on top of me already being exhausted.

 

So, I have done some swapping out of some mods, reinstalled a couple, and either changed or turned off some of their options, and now I have a completely new problem. LOL

 

Whether in Vortex or in WyreBash, I click "Play", and immediately get a little window popping up with the following error:

 

REL/Relocation.h(600): failed to open:
Data/F4SE/Plugins/version-1-10-163-0.bin

 

As for my system specs, here is a complete log, courtesy of DXDiag!

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I shut down everything nonessential before I play any game. Force of habit, been doing it for years. LOL
Oh, I love that chest. And that scoped rifle and I have have been best friends ever since I first discovered the mod! LOL Very nice mice? :P Never did get into modding myself, so I have never tried to add anything else to the chest. Been tempted a time or three, but well, you know. LOL
And why wouldn't we head straight home after crawling out of that precious vault...? *looks around all innocent-like* hehe
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Paxxis

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Hey there, Storm.

 

I forgot to include this one in my last message.

 

I opened the Plugin Checker in WyreBash, and here is what I got...

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

As I mentioned before, I have never modded any of this stuff, so I don't have the programs mentioned in this report, nor the knowledge of how to do it. lol

Yay me. hehe

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Paxxis

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Heyas Storm!

 

Ok, I figured out the problem with that error message. I had to re-enable the address library for Buffout. So now I can get back into the game. Kind of. I can load a save, but when it comes to starting a new game, it just sits there, panning around the garage and playing the music, but it never actually gets to the initial loading screen right before the game intro.

 

 

Still... progress.

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StormWolf01 Grand Master

StormWolf01

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Pax!

I didn't forget about you, buddy! I was trying to find this thread last night, and the nexus forums lost conn!! :pinch:

So I ended up going to bed, LOL :laugh:

 

Ok so before I dig into the meat and potatoes here. I've been thinking this over since I read your last post about the problem.

Scientifically speaking, we've done a process of elimination.

Other than the lag, which we still need to figure out... these problems didn't start til you added buffout and/or wryebash into the mix. Neither of which, are specifically needed, for the game.

 

And your last post, about having to re-enable libraries for buffout pretty much confirms that there is where some of the problems that you're having, is coming from.

 

So I'm not trying to be a butthead, or talk smack or anything like that. But in all honesty, the other two applications (Buffout and Wryebash) seem to be what is causing the problems, or at least, one of them is. Either by the application themselves, or by something that you're doing with them.

 

My honest opinion is this. Both those applications are for advanced trouble shooting. Especially and particularly for people who have big load orders, or players who have exceeded the max number of mods, or have extreme complexity getting their load orders to work together.

IMO, they are not "Must Have" other than for those needs.

 

Case in point being your report from Wryebash. I was looking at the area modification mods that you have listed there. It's saying X number of deleted references. The average home user player isn't going to know that most of those references are "most likely" garbage that was strewn around on the ground, that was removed from the game by the override.

Or realize that if they turn on that mod, in mid game, they've just introduced 5,852 errors into their savegame (NewSanctuary.esp) because they didn't start their game with that mod installed, they started it midway through. (Thats the positive flipside of using apps like this!)

Or understand what that message about the invalid Tes4 version numbers are referring to. Or how to fix it. (Which is seriously easy, btw). In the file header, in Xedit, you just change whatever number is there to 0.950000 if running game version .138 or 1.000000 if running game version .163 then save the file.

Or know the risks to their savegames if they esl-ify that many mods that they have in their load order, in that .esl capable list. Or why they'd even want to try it in the first place.

Again, not trying to be a butthead, only trying to be helpful. But the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." is seriously bouncing around in my head :laugh:

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Paxxis

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Hey there, Storm!

 

No worries at all. Believe me, I get it. Real life sucks at times. LOL

And the forums, losing conn? Yeah, that happens far more frequently than I would like. :D

 

Ok, having read over your message (and no, I don't think you're being a butthead at all. Quite the opposite, actually! :) ), I am wondering if I turn off Buffout and the address library that goes with it, what that might affect. According to the nexus page for Buffout, it will have some impact on Vis-G item sorting ("This is not really required. But it will increase the amount of scaleform memory available, which can help with stability if you're bumping into engine limitations using VIS-G in combination with other mods (like AAF) using scaleform memory as well.").

 

So, there is that. I could see how much of an impact it actually has, though. I have a significant amount of memory, so now I am curious. As for WyreBash, I snagged that mainly for the ease of moving mods around in the load order. I still run Fallout through Vortex, though.

 

One thing I noticed last night, was that I still had an instance of WyreBash running. It was minimized, so I didn't notice. I am going to close that, and see how well things run. Then, I can try turning off Buffout (and it's library), and seeing how things turn out.

 

I agree that so far the process of elimination has been good, and I am even happier that the game runs, even if it could run better. Thankfully, I have a save file, free of mods, right before I exit the vault, which makes testing quite handy. LOL

 

I hate having to tweak mods in the middle of a save, as I know it can do horrible things (Wow, 5,852 errors?! Yikes!). I've never used Xedit, so I would be lost there. LOL I saw the option to esl-ify mods, but I didn't want to touch that, as again, I am no modder, and I wasn't sure what impact that would have. I agree, if it's not broke, leave it alone. :)

 

Again, you're not being a butthead at all. You are helping me figure all of this out, for which I am extremely grateful. I will run those tests (removing Buffout and keeping WyreBash off), and let you know what happens. I will have this up throughout the day, and will be checking back periodically.

 

Thanks again!

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StormWolf01 Grand Master

StormWolf01

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Good weekend to you, buddy!

First off, thanks for understanding. Sometimes when we type things out others don't interpret them the same way that we did when in our own brain :laugh:

That whole voice inflection, kinda thing. :laugh:

Oh good, so you KNOW what I was talking about! Yeah. It was like... crazy timing! I finished up a post, and I was like... Ok, now I NEED to get back to Pax!

Internet: NOPE!

:laugh: :laugh:

TBH, about the only thing that I'm really not too sure about, with WB is that it can create .esp files. I've seen several LO's with Bash 0.esp (or something like that) in them. I don't know what those are, or what they have in them, or what they do!

But yeah. It's an awesome tool. For those that know how to use it. Potentially dangerous for those that don't.

Buffout I really, really need to do more investigation into it. I've read a periphery scan, and kinda know a bit. But yeah. The fact that it's talking about using resources is interesting tho.

 

So what I was saying, about that Sanctuary mod. The log says that it's got 5852 removed entries. Again, that is probly mostly scrap around the ground, or possibly altered walls/buildings. But it's still... gone. Or... different. From a file that the system is reading when the game boots up.

So if I do as I do, and I start with a vanilla sanctuary. I've played about 4 hours (I WISH I had that kinda time!!!) and then install and activate the mod, and then just go back to playing.

The game does an autosave about 10 minutes into my play. It saves the NEW information for sanctuary, into the save file. On top of the old save information. Which doesn't match, by nearly 6k times.

 

Oh, btw. This is TOTALLY off topic. But, if you have some free time... this is a very, very interesting series. This series was started way, way back when the game was released. I'm getting a real kick out of seeing a few of the bugs that we actually don't really have anymore, this guy making some of the exact same newbie mistakes that we ALL made, and just some of his smartassery to some of the comments made by the npcs, and especially watching his reaction when he sees the grenade or mine icon pop up on the screen! :laugh:

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Paxxis

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Hey Storm! Hope your weekend is off to a great start!

 

Oh trust me, I do understand. I have seen it happen, and I have experienced it myself. We say something one way, intending for it to be meant/taken one way, and the next thing we know... lol Yeah, I get it.

 

And yes, I know exactly what you were talking about. Been through it enough times myself. Don't ya just love it when the internet makes your decisions for you? LOL

 

To be perfectly honest, I have no idea what that Bashed.esp is, either. It popped up the first few times I ran WB, and after awhile I just unchecked it. I didn't put it there, so I didn't think it should remain. Then again, me thinking I know what I am doing is sort of how this all started... Anyway! LOL

 

For me, WB is a lot easier to use for moving mods around in the load order. Maybe I'm just old, but it honestly calls back memories of some of the first mod managers I used back when I got into FO 3. Beyond that, I look at some of the "features", and while I am sure they are great, I just don't use them.

 

Buffout was installed originally because of that one mod... Vis-G Item Sorting. It seemed to be a soft requirement, and I try to install the necessary files when adding a new mod. Once everything started going downhill, I turned to the logs Buffout generated, in hopes of finding a solution. But beyond that, yeah, I don't know much about it either. LOL

 

Yep, I completely understand about that whopping nearly 6K conflicts thing. First off, that is just nuts. Agreed, it is likely just cleaning up the debris, fallen leaves, etc., while creating new versions of previously unusable houses, etc. But still. That is a lot of changes. I am actually considering starting again, this time with a new clean save, and seeing what happens. The save I am working with now seems perfectly ok, but I am still getting lag, and I have no idea what could be causing this one.

 

According to WB, everything in the load order is in the green. Vortex isn't showing any errors or conflicts, either. Yet when I load the game through Vortex, I run a few steps, lag. Come out of that batch of lag, and play for 10-30 seconds, lag. It is entirely random how long I am able to play before the lag hits.

 

Still, the fact that I am able to play at all is something.

 

I will definitely check out this series! Thanks for the recommend. If you have any thoughts on what might be causing lag, or what usually causes it in general, I would love to hear!

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