Question #2: 27/01/2005

[LordSpike]

I'm all for a Co-Op mode. It must be an option at least in Oblivion.

[Nushio]

Heres my oppinions:

 

I certainly would enjoy having Co-Operative gameplay as optional.

 

There have been numerous ocasions when i've wanted to connect to my girlfriend's pc just to help her out on a certain part.

 

However, as much as making it a MASSIVE multiplayer... Im not sure about that. They would have to change a lot of things.

 

For example, supposing it was an MMORPG, the quests would be on first come, first serve basis, which wouldnt be good for newbies because most would be done.

 

Second, Bethesda would probably try to charge by month (Which i refuse to do, thats why i dont play games like everquest or city of heroes).

 

So finally, I would love if Oblivion was left like Morrowind, but with Co-Operative mode, where one could 'transport' his character into another player's 'Map´ (Keep in mind that even though its the same Map, just because you killed someone in your pc, shoudnt mean it is dead on someone else's pc)

 

Edit: After serious consideration, i realized something: Even though you are "the incartane" on Morrowind, bethesda could allow us that WHEN we TRANSPORT to another Pc, we become regular characters, leaving the title to whoever you connected to.

 

Example: I beat the game. Friend B just started the game and needs pointers on where to buy stuff. I connect to his pc, and appear to be a "regular citizen, level 100".

 

Where as, if Friend B connected to me, I'd be the almighty, and he'd be the humble servant :P

 

It could work, basically what we want is to transport ourselves into someplace else, keeping our stats, name and equipment, right? So it could be done!

 

Heres another example I have for the Co Op idea.

I start the game, Friend B wants to join, he'd then be 'born' as some random NPC. A file is created so that whenever Friend B rejoins, he would continie where he left off (even if he appears out of mid air, we can say he 'teleported')

Edited February 17, 2005 by Nushio

[Abramul]

So, the host keeps the quests, titles, rewards and whatnot, while the client gets some loot and the satisfaction of helping? I like it!

 

Even more interesting might be specific areas DESIGNED for co-op play (probably by the community), where everyone is just a common adventurer. I personally would make a char that DIDN'T do quests just for that use. Does whatever engine is being used include protocols that could be adapted?

[GeorgeStephen]

Multiplayer would be great if were implemented the same way as MP Freelancer, where anyone can set up a server (with mods) & run via lan or the InterWeb thing.

 

Reason:

 

I think one of the greatest strengths of Morrowind are the Plug-Ins produced by all those clever chaps/chapesses out there. A centralized server system would require all players to run exactly the same mods (or more likly none) to avoid PlayerA entering a building/dungeon that Players B, C & D can't see. Or picking up a suit of Daderic armour etc. IMHO this would kill all the longer term creative interest in the game.

[Charleh]

You could always stream the content out to players as they play. Thats what several MMORPGs and games do at the moment, or you could just make the server send the mod data on connect, like UT/CS etc.

[GeorgeStephen]

I'm sure the streaming idea would work [well, clearly it does if companies are out there doing in now!], espcially with broadband speeds going up & up. But I think it slightly misses my point. Remembering the old addage "you can't please all the prople all the time", who would [or could] decide which plugins were active?

 

Imagine this scenario:

A MMORPG has been set up & running for 6 months. It has loads of active players.

A new plugin -area effect arrows- comes along. Its talked about on the forums before being activated.

The archers think it makes things far too easy. What's the point in being a expert marksman if any Tom, %&$! or Harry can decimate a charging horde with a single poorly placed shot?

The mages love it (any fool can pick a bow up after all). Now they can fireball monters without worrying about mana reserves (untill their arrows run out that is!).

The thieves love it because they have thought a bit further ahead and realize that they can be as powerful as a high level mage in combat.

The fighters are undecided - they can see the advantage it will give the group as a whole, but are concerned that their position will be diminished.

The Healers are horrified - they could be used on us after all!

 

Would the mod be activated? Probably not as it would unbalance any well formed group. Who would bother to write the next plugin?

 

However in a MORPG with only 3 players (say a thief & 2 fighters), this mod could be a really useful re-balancing tool (as it is in Morrowind if your character isn't a spell caster).

[megaburn]

Hi,

I got an email reminding me that this site exists and a general news update. I’ve retired from Morrowind but I’m keeping a close eye on Oblivion’s development so I’ll start to pay a little more attention on here. Anyway, without reading the other responses to this week’s question (I’m kind of short on time at the moment): Multiplayer: Yes; MMORPG: No.

 

Multiplayer offers certain social experiences that you cannot find else where. Whether it’s covering your buddies in a heavy fire fight while playing a FPS or cutting a swath through hordes of demons in a hack n slash click fest. It’s just fun. The Elder Scrolls, being as unique as it is, offers a rather interesting potential for a deeper game play experience over single player alone or even other multiplayer games. I think the major objection to multiplayer comes from people who do not want to see the storyline cheapened with increased combat to appease the FPS multiplayer crowd. While this argument is, traditionally, accurate I think Bethsoft could manage a strong balance.

 

Looking at Morrowind or even what is known about Oblivion now, it’s clear that if a multiplayer element were added to either game - as is - the impact on the story would be negligible. The game play experience, on the other hand, should change quite a bit. Whether or not this change is an improvement depends more on the players than on the game itself. A couple trigger happy players jumping from Half Life 2 over to a multiplayer Oblivion would probably turn the game play into hack n slash blood bath. A couple people jumping over from playing D&D over IRC or a MUD would probably seek to enhance the story quite a bit or even set rules against cheapening game play with excessive combat or looting.

 

In short, expanding and balancing game play would be a challenge but in the end it would be an improvement. Or put it this way: Why are there so many, popular, Morrowind mods that add NPC allies, friends, pets, or even “significant others”? Is it just a few geeks seeking to create a virtual social life because their real social life is lacking? I would like to think that it is because people love The Elder Scrolls and want to share their game play experience with their real life friends but settle for NPC’s because the game is single player. Then again maybe it’s a trend of anti-social personality disorders. Multiplayer would also open up the option to run AI bots for added competition – or companionship.

 

As for MMORPG’s: No. It will only lead to a break down in the quality of the game play experience, cheapen the story, kill modding, and add yet another game to an already saturated market place. I think an included option for a player run dedicated server with the option for a persistent environment is a good idea but for regular multiplayer only. This would allow a small group of friends to experience the story, reset the game world for another run through the story, and then install a few mods to change the game play for yet another run through a somewhat different story.

 

Another way to look at it is core game play dynamics: TES single player is generally about the game play experience, multiplayer is generally about “winning” regardless of the game or genre, and MMORPG’s tend to be about living an alternate life of sorts (hence the “Ever Crack” effect). TES has always been about the story and game play experience. Balancing the game play so players cannot “win” should make multiplayer possible and without significantly changing the experience. An MMORPG could only cheapen the experience – and (again) remove the modding aspect from the “total player freedom” core game design concept.

 

Finally there are the implications of adding multiplayer. An absolute requirement is there can be no effect on the single player game play – except perhaps the option to turn on included AI bots for built “NPC friends”. Modding would probably explode with hack n slash fans increasing combat and RPG fans focusing on new lands, “tweaking the experience”, or creating new adventures. Since everyone can run their own game (unlike an MMORPG) player groups would probably develop radically different sets of mods.

 

For any Fallout fans on here: this argument also applies to Fallout. Multiplayer Fallout *could* be a major improvement but I agree with most of the hardcore Fallout following that Bethsoft has yet to prove their ability to design a multiplayer RPG.

 

This is an old but still interesting debate. One which I’ll have to continue later… Sorry for the long post, I’ve run through this argument a dozen plus times and this is the sum total of my point. I’ll probably post another rant in a couple weeks.

 

 

-Chris

[Salisbury]

i dont think multiplayer is TES. your experience of multiplayer is so dependant on the other people playing that its a really precarious thing. i played diablo II and was severely put off by the number of jerks and arrogant geeks that just trampled on everyone else. there was also a massive, competitive aspect to the game that partly prompted alot of cheating. overall i have become disillusioned with the whole multiplayer component of gaming partly because of this. i found TES interesting because its an entire world which you personally can explore and get to grips with in any way you choose to see fit. you wont ever be a detriment to anyone else's experience. and you will never be able to inadvertantly wreck anyone else's gaming experience.

 

there is als othe issue of ongoing multiplayer environments. the last time i played multiplayer RPGs it was life stealing and there was either significant pressure or significant inclination to spend vast amounts of time playing in game. it doesnt necessarily but it can have a really damaging effect on your social and professional life. i think ive always liked TES because it consumable and approachable in anyway you see fit. and whilst MMORPGs are designed to be freeform aswell, i find the greatest resistance to that come from the way in which everyone around you plays the game which in turn effects how you play the game. in morrowind you can play for a few minutes or a few hours. you can touch the surface or totally immerse yourself for a weekend. you can cheat and screw around and it wont affect anyone else. theres talk of co operative play but for some reason i find playing morrowind quite a solitary experience. i dont really know anyone else that would want to sit down and play co operatively with me cuz sometimes i can play for only a short while. sometimes ill wanna do a marathon. and it always felt more overwhelming and immersive when you were the lone wanderer left to your own devices. thats pretty much all i did in morrowind. wander about. didnt get bored of it either.

 

i think my opinion though is coloured by my extraordinarily bad experience of multiplayer gaming in general. its come to the point where i just dont play multiplayer anymore. i also miss well refined single player experiences but i guess thats because i grew up playing single player games. morrowind was just like one pf the most comprehensive single player game experiences ive had since the ultimas (i loved ultima IX). you just dont get that online whith some jerk harassing you into a PvP or trying to trade you duped items or just PKing you anyway and looting your stuff with god knows what cheat. or the spitefulness, the competitiveness and hostility towards newer, inexperienced players. online rpgs make me lose faith in the human race. it just seems to bring out the worst arrogance and geekiness in far too many people. i think im more inclined to have a laff about stuff like that (cae in point: that everquest cecil cybersex thing. ive seen and heard worse aswell - just none that got that kind of coverage.)

[wraithguard01]

I think that if the multiplayer mode would be a success, they would have to continually update the quests. The "main mission" would have to take the structure of a army like campaign. The only downside is, it probobly couldn't be released on XBOX, only computer.

[Barenziahlover]

I think they could stay with single player format with than possible up to 4 or 6 player LAN play in the future.

 

I have touble spelling as I was born with brain damage speech center than MMORP wouldnot be for me. Second Diablo II the latest patch doesnot allow than single player to use than game editor on his character. Than bunch of European complain alot about cheating in online gameplaying I agree with then that onlime cheating is wrong. But it than single player game player want to cheat that his chioce. Why do you think they left in TGM (toggle GodMode) in thr game along with other just codes in the first place.