What happened to the yennefer(tw3) clothing mod?

[VanyarElf]

See, the thing is that Robin has repeatedly stated why he has these rules. Sometimes politely, sometimes with exasperation.

 

Yet, about once a year the Nexus will make a ruling that "we don't want to host this type of mod" and then we'll have to put up with months of people trying to make up silly reasons why they can't/shouldn't do that.

 

Many of these reasons are silly because the person is twisting logic into pretzels in order to support their claims. Like saying that the characters age doesn't matter because they are just pixels.

 

Many of these reasons are silly because they are obvious attempts to hide the persons racism/sexism/homophobia/transphobia/whatever. Usually their attempt to obfuscate their real reasons is absolutely laughably bad.

 

And many of these reasons seem to rely on some rando on the site trying to convince the owner of the site that his business policies are going to cause the site to go bankrupt (the absurd "go woke, go broke" argument). These arguments continue even as the site expands every year due to the owners policies and hard work.

 

Regardless of the reasons, it all adds up to an almost annual parade of people polluting the forums with their objections even after the site owner has made it clear that such objections are not welcome.

 

Which usually leads into a series of "my first amendment" posts, and those are a completely different type of silly.

I feel compelled to just point out that this 'silly twisted logic pretzel' you're referring to is the industry standard and legal standard of most countries. You cannot objectively define the 'biological age' of a goddamn pixel artwork. Do you think it's possible for the Goblins and Centaurs to be 'below 18' too? You can only visually approximate the physiology of a prepubescent human, as JRPG's and Hentai's often do, whereas Hogwarts Legacy PC models were literally based on sexually mature adults and are completely indistinguishable from a young adult in The Sims or a variety of other games. Other than that, the only thing that matters is the creator's/modifiers intent - the age that you assign to the models being portrayed.

 

Which is the reason you can go to Google right now and find billions of Tumblr blogs or DeviantArts and Forums and Spoof games featuring sexualized Harry Potter content of students wearing their school robes with a simple disclaimer stating 'All characters are adults 18+' and that's it, regardless of what 'Official J.K Rowling lore' says about the ages of Hogwarts students. 'Game lore' doesn't have any legal standing or ethical relevance, only intent and empirical observation do.

 

Finally, worth educating all the misinformed people that, in the United States of America, even if you were to create a fictional work that you explicitly designated as a 13-year old child, and looked like a child, and included full nudity as well as performance of sexual acts in it, that would still be perfectly legal under U.S depiction laws so long as the pornography was not 'obscene', which is a caveat belonging to an archaic class of 'Obscenity laws' ( Look it up ) that courts haven't been enforcing in decades and which could just as equally get you arrested for insulting someone in an 'obscene manner' if they were.

 

 

And what we're arguing about doesn't even come close to that, in fact it's pretty wild that fashion items which are currently the norm for teenagers in the West are all banned in HL for 'sexualization'.

Edited February 20, 2023 by VanyarElf

[GaiusMartius]

 

The Yennifer outfit, as I said earlier, appeared to stick the body of a fully grown and highly sexualized adult onto a fifteen year old student.

 

But, honestly, that doesn't matter. The rules of the site make it clear that the site owner/staff can make a decision, on a per-mod basis, whether or not they want to host a mod. If the problem repeats, they'll usually make it more clear what their standard is for that game.

 

But you don't get warnings or bans for posting the mod originally (unless you do something silly like use a sock puppet account or re-post a mod). It just gets removed and at that point you don't get to upload it again.

 

It would be very difficult for them to be specific about every single thing that is going to be unacceptable. And it would just increase the arguments and attempts to get around it.

 

So, it's really simple. If you upload a mod and they say "we don't want to host this" then you don't upload it again. And if you aren't the mod author then you aren't really involved at all.

 

As for "paying to use Nexus", Premium has a list of specific things it gets you and the "right to complain" isn't one of them. You don't have ANY ownership of this site so you don't get a say in the decisions.

Yes, you said that earlier. In what respect is she "highly sexualized" in a way that deviates from the game as it is currently sold? Is there a particular measurement? How was this determined? At the moment, it sounds like something you're just repeating without really thinking about it. Is it because Yennefer has breasts? I seem to recall having breasts at that age as well, something reflected in the player character's model in the game even without mods. That isn't "highly sexualized", that's "being a human female".

 

Yes, the rules make it clear that there are no rules beyond the moment to moment whims of the staff, you're correct. That's kind of the problem we're discussing, and the reason you see this conversation so many times here. When people with any amount of self esteem and capacity for critical thinking see nonsensical rules being applied unevenly, and especially when they're paired to unprofessional and belligerent behavior from the paid service provider, they tend to find that cause for complaint. No self respecting person needs a bullet point explicitly granting them the right to complain about a poor experience before they feel comfortable doing so. The idea that there are people who sincerely believe such a right needs to be explicitly granted to them in a terms of service is depressing.

 

Well put. I was personally surprised that it got taken down. Not only did it seem like a fairly innocuous mod, par the course in clothing mods (seeing as people are allowed to freely use Witcher assets, and have done so for some time) the outfit covers the character completely, except for a small bit of neckline. There is nothing inherently sexual about it. lol

[showler]

I don't know if you just don't understand how character models work, but the mod put the body shape of a fully grown woman whose character was designed to be sexually attractive and applied it to fifteen year old characters. And one of the things that the Nexus decided was "not acceptable" was body mods that make the characters look older than they are supposed to be. It's that simple.

 

I don't know how you could imagine a list of "rules" that would cover every scenario. That's why the actual rule is "if we don't find it acceptable, we'll tell you so." And I don't know why you think that's a problem. It's the "I know it when I see it" rule for mods.

 

As for your "right to complain" about "a poor experience", you should note that publicly complaining about moderator actions is actually against the rules here. It's a small company, there's no reason they should have to put up with people constantly complaining about them doing their job.

[showler]

 

Stuff about laws

Laws are irrelevant, we're talking about the rules of this website.

 

And for the love of God, both Robin and the website are British so stop bringing up the bloody First Amendment.

[VanyarElf]

I don't know if you just don't understand how character models work, but the mod put the body shape of a fully grown woman whose character was designed to be sexually attractive and applied it to fifteen year old characters. And one of the things that the Nexus decided was "not acceptable" was body mods that make the characters look older than they are supposed to be. It's that simple.

 

I don't know how you could imagine a list of "rules" that would cover every scenario. That's why the actual rule is "if we don't find it acceptable, we'll tell you so." And I don't know why you think that's a problem. It's the "I know it when I see it" rule for mods.

 

As for your "right to complain" about "a poor experience", you should note that publicly complaining about moderator actions is actually against the rules here. It's a small company, there's no reason they should have to put up with people constantly complaining about them doing their job.

The funniest part is that Witcher 3 Yennefer is actually less curvy than the female models designed by Avalanche themselves for the Hogwarts Legacy PC. Here's a side-by-side comparison of what Champions Leggings look like on a HL character versus Yennefer in the Witcher 3:

 

 

 

As far as I can tell from the photos of the Yennefer mod someone posted earlier, the author never 'imported Yennefer's highly sexualized body' into the game, he only made some extremely minor tweaks perhaps to make sure the outfit doesn't clip or looks snug.

 

 

 

Stuff about laws

Laws are irrelevant, we're talking about the rules of this website.

 

And for the love of God, both Robin and the website are British so stop bringing up the bloody First Amendment.

 

I'm British too, the reason I bring up the U.S is because those who are most vocal about the prospective 'Sexualization of characters below the age of 18' tend to be Americans, but all the other points I've raised still apply - You can't be charged under UK depiction laws for a fictional portrayal that you declared to be that of an adult, regardless of what anyone else 'thinks' the character's age really is, certainly not for sexually developed characters, and not only is it of course legal in the UK for teenagers to be wearing and depicted with anything that isn't outright nudity, but 'skimpy' clothes are extremely popular.

[PrettyCat]

I don't know if you just don't understand how character models work, but the mod put the body shape of a fully grown woman whose character was designed to be sexually attractive and applied it to fifteen year old characters. And one of the things that the Nexus decided was "not acceptable" was body mods that make the characters look older than they are supposed to be. It's that simple.

 

I don't know how you could imagine a list of "rules" that would cover every scenario. That's why the actual rule is "if we don't find it acceptable, we'll tell you so." And I don't know why you think that's a problem. It's the "I know it when I see it" rule for mods.

 

As for your "right to complain" about "a poor experience", you should note that publicly complaining about moderator actions is actually against the rules here. It's a small company, there's no reason they should have to put up with people constantly complaining about them doing their job.

Again, in what specific way is she "designed to be sexually attractive"? How are you measuring this? How are you making this determination? In what way does going from "model of human female with breasts" to "model of human female with breasts" make the character look older than they are? Again, I was a fifteen year old girl once - believe it or not, I did have breasts. It happens.

 

There is nothing sexual about Yennefer's outfit. There is nothing revealing about it. There is nothing sexual about her model that is unique to her model when compared to the game's own model. You are not starting from a place of looking at the facts, and coming to a logical conclusion. You are starting from a place of "I must shield Robin Scott from these evildoers!" and working backwards from there, and it's causing you to say a lot of things that don't make a lot of sense.

[showler]

Why are you so determined to have some sort of numbers to go by? Why isn't "don't put an adult body on a fifteen year old" good enough for you?

[PrettyCat]

Why are you so determined to have some sort of numbers to go by? Why isn't "don't put an adult body on a fifteen year old" good enough for you?

Because your position is nonsensical, and I enjoy asking simple, direct questions which you are unable to answer. If your argument was sound, you wouldn't need a page and a half of avoiding any explanation of it.

[VanyarElf]

 

I don't know if you just don't understand how character models work, but the mod put the body shape of a fully grown woman whose character was designed to be sexually attractive and applied it to fifteen year old characters. And one of the things that the Nexus decided was "not acceptable" was body mods that make the characters look older than they are supposed to be. It's that simple.

 

I don't know how you could imagine a list of "rules" that would cover every scenario. That's why the actual rule is "if we don't find it acceptable, we'll tell you so." And I don't know why you think that's a problem. It's the "I know it when I see it" rule for mods.

 

As for your "right to complain" about "a poor experience", you should note that publicly complaining about moderator actions is actually against the rules here. It's a small company, there's no reason they should have to put up with people constantly complaining about them doing their job.

Again, in what specific way is she "designed to be sexually attractive"? How are you measuring this? How are you making this determination? In what way does going from "model of human female with breasts" to "model of human female with breasts" make the character look older than they are? Again, I was a fifteen year old girl once - believe it or not, I did have breasts. It happens.

 

There is nothing sexual about Yennefer's outfit. There is nothing revealing about it. There is nothing sexual about her model that is unique to her model when compared to the game's own model. You are not starting from a place of looking at the facts, and coming to a logical conclusion. You are starting from a place of "I must shield Robin Scott from these evildoers!" and working backwards from there, and it's causing you to say a lot of things that don't make a lot of sense.

 

The entire train of thought is completely dogmatic, which is why it can be stretched ad infinitum. When describing clothing mods as 'sexual', or clothes that are too form-fitting as sexual, the only reason they perceive it as such to begin with is because the characters themselves are, in fact, already 'sexual'. They're anatomically sexually developed models, even moreso than adult models in many other games. Which is why anything that doesn't actively hide their sexually dimorphic features is going to 'sexualize' them by default. If you want to focus on those attributes, you can always do so.

 

The problems comes from an association of any clothing item that simply accentuates or god forbid, reveals a non-erogenous part of the character's body as being solely intended to arouse or entice, and the notion that any modicum of subjective sex appeal would be 'inappropriate' in and of itself due to the pixel's 'age'. Even if an outfit was more 'revealing', it would have the same properties on a '16-year old' as it would on a 18 year old - Just because you or someone else can find the sex appeal in it, doesn't mean it was tailored or exclusively worn with that goal in mind. Fashion can be revealing, someone can get tired of watching sweaters, vests and baggy pants all the time.

 

Simultaneously, there would be nothing inappropriate about it if it did also serve to convey sex appeal. Adult fashion designers marketing their latest chic for 16 or 17 year olds openly promote it all the time, as do coming of age shows or teen dramas on TV. And that's in real life, not for fictional characters in video game with only their visual model and 'lore' to go by. Most people playing video games just see what's right in front of their eyes without maintaining a constant awareness of whether the lore dictated that they're supposed to be 16, 18, or 10,000 years old and 4'11.

 

Bottom line, the outfits you select for your character are only as 'sexualized' as you want them to be, and a third-party deeming them 'too indecent' is akin to a school telling students that their short sleeves or shorts are 'sexually provocative' or the Iranian modesty police arguing that bare shoulders, crop-tops, or whatever would be articles of 'sexualized clothing'. That sounds more like a 'you' problem to me for those third-parties, and it's really weird to see a western website using the same sexualization metrics as those of the strictest theocracies on the planet.

Edited February 20, 2023 by VanyarElf

[showler]

Yeah, you definitely don't understand how body meshes/clothing meshes work. The author isn't just importing the clothes, they are importing the body shape entirely.