"External Changes" issue

[anjenthedog]

It seems like almost every time I try to update a support mod (for the past several months), I'm getting an "External Changes" flag thrown, even when using the little update-in-place icon to work from, and so I am forced to choose between either deleting files vortex has flagged or "reverting" or the deployment will not proceed.

 

Now, that wouldn't be a bad thing per say, except that its default is ""Save change" (delete files) for affected files.

 

Now this wouldn't' be a bad thing either, except that it inevitably ends with the mod having to be reinstalled because it's non functional following deployment because critical files were removed by using Vortex's suggested action.

 

 

This thing confuses me. When I handle load order issues, Vortex ostensibly "suggests" a correct action, (so far, those suggestions have all been "correct" with only one or two possible exceptions...not bad for 550 mods...) but with the "External Changes" handler, I've lost all confidence due to over a dozen instances of having to reinstall said mod after deployment and finding it's now missing its esm, or some ini file, or whatever, or gamble that the "revert" action isn't omitting ini or other "soft" changes made by the newer version.

 

Game is Skyijm SE fwiw.

 

Base object swapper just experienced it, Mu Joint fix right after. And as I said, at least dozen in prior months. Not mods I fiddle with like Racemenu presets or body textures where I might expect Vortex to protest if I manually edited or swapped out some resource file like a mesh or texture.

 

This "external Changes" handler is confusing and misleading., and at least imo, broken. There's no reason Vortex should be flagging files associated with Mu Joint fix or Base object swapper (or most or all of the others that have experienced this odd behavior). I've never touched either. And more importantly, any such actions by Vortex should not result in entire sections of a mod's code purged to the point where they become non functional after a mod update.

[7531Leonidas]

Hey, Anjen - have you checked the drive's file system integrity, or for disk errors? That would be my next step...

[ArtuT2]

Could also be a folder/permissions issue. Try running Vortex as Administrator, or re-create the mod folders on a different drive.

 

Either way; I once complained about the exact issue on git and this was their response:

There is no contradiction here. You deleted files, save will apply this change permanently so the files stay deleted.

I think it's sufficiently easy to understand that "save" and "apply" are synonyms, as are "revert" and "undo".

Who would read that and think "Oh yeah, save means undo".

 

 

[Guest deleted34304850]

do NOT run vortex as an administrator. Please, if you're going to give advice, don't make it bad advice.

Also, did you actually read the reply you got in your github post?

The reply tells you, very clearly, this is a message that comes out when files are deleted. how do you make the jump from deleted files to a folder/permissions error? that's incredible.

Edited July 18, 2023 by 1ae0bfb8

[anjenthedog]

Hey, Anjen - have you checked the drive's file system integrity, or for disk errors? That would be my next step...

 

Yes, the drive and files are happy lil buggers. Performed a regular housekeeping regimen just last week.

 

This is Vortex's doing, not a flaw in my computer.

[anjenthedog]

Could also be a folder/permissions issue. Try running Vortex as Administrator, or re-create the mod folders on a different drive.

 

Either way; I once complained about the exact issue on git and this was their response:

There is no contradiction here. You deleted files, save will apply this change permanently so the files stay deleted.

I think it's sufficiently easy to understand that "save" and "apply" are synonyms, as are "revert" and "undo".

Who would read that and think "Oh yeah, save means undo".

 

 

Wadr, It's not a permissions issue. This is Vortex's doing. It is issuing erroneous advise for a simple update of mods which I never ever touch manually, and it is flagging critical files provided by the updates for deletion without just cause.

[Pickysaurus]

The "External Changes" window generally reports changes made by something other than Vortex (which is why Vortex is asking if you want to save/revert the changes). If you have an example mod and the versions you updated from/to I can try to replicate this problem but most often it's something on your local PC OR something on your PC delaying Vortex's ability to delete the files itself when performing an update so when it looks in the folder again it gets confused.

[anjenthedog]

Yet other mods update just fine without any flagging or issues. As to examples, I provided two examples already . Base Object Swapper and Mu Joint fix. (linked now instead of just mentioned in passing)

 

 

 

Base object swapper just experienced it, Mu Joint fix right after. And as I said, at least dozen in prior months. Not mods I fiddle with like Racemenu presets or body textures where I might expect Vortex to protest if I manually edited or swapped out some resource file like a mesh or texture.

 

But they aren't alone, and some are even more damaging. Sky UI did it too, and over a dozen others did it (although I can't think of which they were off hand). It is a relatively "new" behavior of Vortex that started sometime in 2022.

And it often results in mods that when examined in the mods pane of vortex, show up as "empty" after Vortex performs the file deletions that it recommended by way of providing that as the default resolution behavior.

 

Mu Joint fix is not one that I touch in any way. Ever. Same for base object swapper. Same for Sky UI's base files, same for all the ones I'm talking about. I fiddle with textures and body meshes and sometimes tweak ini settings. that's about it.

 

I can understand when Vortex flags changes that I've made manually outside the manager (ex: swapping meshes manually for instance, which ime will cause this flagging). Perfectly logical, But screwing with mods I never interact with outside vortex doesn't make sense.

[Guest deleted34304850]

Anjen is right.

if i do a mass install/deploy, i can provoke vortex into throwing this message out, as picky states - it gets confused.

the way i found to get around it is to not actually bulk install anything, which then defeats much of the purpose of having that functionality in the first place.

to recreate this is simple enough. take a game with a large amount of mods, purge everything, empty the data folder and all that good stuff, then mass-deploy everything you purged.

it should get itself into a muddle telling you that something "external" has manipulated the files. of course, there is nothing external, its vortex tripping itself up. i can do this, almost at will, but like i said, i now deploy one mod at a time and that prevents this from happening.

i would have reported it as a bug long ago, but i got fed up with all my stuff i'd sent over never making it to git.

 

Edited to correct OP's name. Sorry pal. Typo.

Edited July 18, 2023 by 1ae0bfb8

[anjenthedog]

np ONe Ay EE zero etc. :wink:

 

I don't get my panties in a twist over typos. That would be a clear violation of the "Living in glass houses" codesil of the rules of life.

 

It's good to know I'm not the only one...But to be clear, this is isolated to one degree of freedom (one unmolested mod being updated in a single action at a time, from start to finish of deployment) rather than a mixed bag of mods that can complicate sourcing the error. *ie, when someone posts to the troubleshooting forum and says "skyrim won't start, wut went worng?", and then, when pressed for details eventually elaborates, "well, I loaded four dozen mods my fren said were kewl, and now it won't work wut broke?", which is a far more complicated and nebulous debug.

 

(not to say your example falls into that category, but in principle, it's also got multiple degrees of freedom - potential sources of error- rather than a singular degree of freedom ie, a single source of error)