The U.S. National debt. Ideas how to help bring it down...

[HeyYou]

I don't like either party. :) There are portions of each parties platform that I DO agree with, but, of late, it seems that I don't like ANYTHING that is coming out of washington, regardless of which party originated it. Look back over my postings here, and you will see that I take the republicans to task in equal measure as I do the dems.

 

Quite frankly, I think our current government couldn't do anything right to save their own lives. They simply are incapable of telling the truth about anything, and are more concerned about assigning blame, than solving problems. In all reality, there isn't any money to be made in actually SOLVING problems..... it is more profitable to poke around the edges with stop-gap measures, and treating symptoms of larger ills, rather than addressing the actual problem. Obamacare is a prime example of that. Instead of addressing the REAL problem, JOBS, they pass some monstrous legislation to address only one minor aspect of the problems that are merely ripples from the bigger problem.

 

Immigration reform is another one. Granting amnesty (and that IS what it amounts to) to 11 million plus people isn't addressing the actual problem. It is merely treating a symptom, and ineffectively at that. The message we are sending there is: "if enough people break a law, we will simply pass another law that makes that behavior legal'. How anyone thinks that this act is going to 'discourage' illegal immigration is beyond me. To any rational individual, they will see it will quite obviously have the exact OPPOSITE effect. Folks are going to be thinking that if they can get here, they will be allowed to stay, and rewarded for breaking our laws. We have already seen evidence of this train of thought.

 

And yes, Obamacare IS driving up insurance costs for a signficant percentage of those affected. (mostly folks that already had some form of coverage, that wasn't deemed 'good enough' for obamacare.) Do you think the folks I talk to are lying to me? That their insurance rates didn't go up? Or do you have some rationalization that is was 'junk' insurance, and didn't cover them anyway, so they are 'better off' now, with insurance coverage they will NEVER need, and paying higher premiums for it? This all goes back to one of the 'big lies' we were told about Obamacare in the first place. "If you like your coverage, you can keep it." No, you can't. As has been demonstrated by literally millions of canceled poliicies.

 

So far, all I have seen from you is unwavering support for anything the dems put forth. Not once have I seen you question anything the DNC machine puts out. Don't you think that is just a bit of a problem? Accepting anything at face value from a political party is akin to burying your head in the sand, and refusing to face reality. It's obvious that 'reality' in washington, is dramatically different than the reality I face every day. Maybe I should just go buy a shotgun.......

[rizon72]

Color, I know three people who own their own businesses, and Obamacare IS effecting them, tremendously. All three worked hard for several years with specialists to prepare for it. Even with all that hard work they still are not sure what's going to happen. When that happens, businesses freeze. They make plans years ahead, not months like our government seems to do these days.

 

One of my friends, he wants to grow his business, had a business plan to grow his company from about 50 employees to 120-130 and expand to have more than one office location. Didn't happen, why, Obamacare and its massive amount of poorly structured laws, taxes and other crap. And he worked with people in the government to see how it would effect his business. The problem, as he stated, one day he'd be told one thing, put together a plan, then be told something else which would require a rework of the plan. He's spent tens of thousands on this which could have gone to hiring a new employee or growing his business.

 

My other two friends survived the recession, but one isn't sure his business will survive Obamacare.

 

We will reach a point where we can't just raise taxes anymore to cover costs. We demand companies to be financial responsible, isn't it time we do the same with government? As long as government refuses to reign in spending, it will never get under control, and both parties are blame.

[colourwheel]

@rizon72

 

Let me give you some perspective on things nationally...

 

Only about 96% of all small businesses have fewer than 50 employees in america. A Business that wishes to provide their employees with insurance any ways that have fewer than 25 employees under the law will provide a tax credit to offset their cost. Businesses with fewer than 50 employees are not even required to provide their employees with insurance.

 

A business with more than 50 employees is required to provide insurance under than law to their "full time" employees. Only about 0.2% of businesses in the U.S. with more than 50 employees do not provide insurance to their full time workers....

 

If you have a friend who has exactly 50 employees and was planning on expanding to 120 to even 130 employees I would think they wouldn't have been able to afford to do so anyways even if the law wasn't in effect. A small business doesn't normally expand exponentially in size or even double in size unless the business is doing extremely well... And if they claim they are doing that well to expand that much I doubt a law to cover their full time employees would stop them from doing so anyways....

 

If you would ask me It would seem more like they couldn't afford to expand regardless of the new law. Or maybe using the new law an ideological excuse in protest to not provide their full time employees insurance when they possibly could afford to do so anyways.

 

 

Immigration reform is another one. Granting amnesty (and that IS what it amounts to) to 11 million plus people isn't addressing the actual problem. It is merely treating a symptom, and ineffectively at that. The message we are sending there is: "if enough people break a law, we will simply pass another law that makes that behavior legal'. How anyone thinks that this act is going to 'discourage' illegal immigration is beyond me. To any rational individual, they will see it will quite obviously have the exact OPPOSITE effect. Folks are going to be thinking that if they can get here, they will be allowed to stay, and rewarded for breaking our laws. We have already seen evidence of this train of thought.

 

Granting these people what you call "amnesty" would provide a new source for tax revenue. Let me remind you mostly these are people who have already been living in america for years and a lot of them have already lived here for decades some not even at their own will. Our government is already providing them services using tax payer dollars, would seem logical to just pass legislation to give them full citizenship or at least a path to it. Our country should encourage not discourage people to come here, we are a nation of immigrants. Because if you notice people who come here regardless will stay legally or not.... We need immigration reform now more than ever.

 

 

And yes, Obamacare IS driving up insurance costs for a signficant percentage of those affected. (mostly folks that already had some form of coverage, that wasn't deemed 'good enough' for obamacare.) Do you think the folks I talk to are lying to me? That their insurance rates didn't go up? Or do you have some rationalization that is was 'junk' insurance, and didn't cover them anyway, so they are 'better off' now, with insurance coverage they will NEVER need, and paying higher premiums for it? This all goes back to one of the 'big lies' we were told about Obamacare in the first place. "If you like your coverage, you can keep it." No, you can't. As has been demonstrated by literally millions of canceled poliicies.

 

Obamacare Is driving up insurance costs for a "signficant" percentage of those affected? makes me wonder what you think a significant percentage is... to my understanding only about 4% of people who currently had plans had their rates go up due to their old plan being complete junk. Some of these old plans would have cut them off or even dropped them off insurance if something bad would happen to their health.

 

And yes they are better off now with standard that is upheld by the law. After all what is the point in having insurance if "when" you actually need it the most a provider could kick you off of it before? unless people don't plan on getting old or they are extremely rich, I doubt anyone would ever say they would never "need" good insurance coverage...

Edited January 8, 2014 by colourwheel

[HeyYou]

What those numbers don't tell you is: Better than 65% of people are employed by firms with 100 or more employees. They didn't break the numbers down to 50 or more. Next rung was 20.... So, while a small percenage of businesses may be effected, the majority of employees ARE.

 

Also, have a look at this article. A small excerpt:

 

 

Based on a Manhattan Institute analysis of the HHS numbers, Obamacare will increase underlying insurance rates for younger men by an average of 97 to 99 percent, and for younger women by an average of 55 to 62 percent. Worst off is North Carolina, which will see individual-market rates triple for women, and quadruple for men.

And you are trying to convince us that rates won't go up..... Right. The rates are going to beat the crap out of those that we need to sign up the most, which is going to seriously discourage them from doing so, considering the comparison between how much insurance is going to cost them, and how much the 'fine' will be for not having insurance.... What choice do you think they are going to make?

 

Your rationalization really doesn't surprise me at all. Just to hazard a guess here, you don't pay for your insurance, do you?

[colourwheel]

@HeyYou

 

I will admit that article is very convincing to make people scared of Obamacare...

 

But that old article doesn't have substantial info on the subsidies these people will be getting who are self paying for insurance. What I read was just talking points and no actual data to back things up other than him stating "analyses" he discussed with. As if the people "he" talked with can conclude the debate just based on opinions... again this author was just making "projections" last September when the article was published, nothing conclusive....

Edited January 8, 2014 by colourwheel

[HeyYou]

There were links to the actual studies...... have a read, interesting stuff.

 

I am real curious if the subsidies are going to actually cover someones premium jumping by 400%...... guess we will have to give it some time, and see what happens.

 

Thing is though, given that north of 65% of all employees work for companies that are directly affected by obamacare, (actually, more than that.... but, just don't have exact numbers, in any event, 2/3rds of the workforce...) you can see how the uncertainties surrounding the implementation would give business pause about hiring more workers, when they don't have a clue what that will do to their health insurance costs..... Given that folks are going to be required to carry more coverage than what they probably currently have (the maternity coverage for instance, even for MEN.), it is certain that employers ARE going to be paying more for health insurance. Said costs will either be transferred to their employees, in the form of larger contributions to their premium (which subsidies DON'T cover), or, passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices for the product.

 

Now, on the other hand, had Obama and company actually done something to give corporations motivation to actually HIRE people, and put more folks back to work, the whole 'no insurance' thing would be a non-issue. Right along with decreasing welfare roles, and all the costs that go along with it. Cheifly, Medicaid. You know, health insurance for the unemployed. Not to mention that the fed would also see an increase in revenue, due to income taxes. Now, doesn't that make FAR more sense than what actually happened?

[colourwheel]

Don't get me wrong here was never suggesting the new healthcare law was perfect but it's all we have. The republican party doesn't even have an alternative "idea" let alone any ideas how to help the nation out.

 

Regardless of needing more incentives for corporations to actually hire people. Healthcare in this country would still have to eventually be addressed nationally. I actually wanted a single-payer plan...

[HeyYou]

Don't get me wrong here was never suggesting the new healthcare law was perfect but it's all we have. The republican party doesn't even have an alternative "idea" let alone any ideas how to help the nation out.

 

Regardless of needing more incentives for corporations to actually hire people. Healthcare in this country would still have to eventually be addressed nationally. I actually wanted a single-payer plan...

Put people back to work, and the insurance problem would solve itself. No need for 2500 pages of legalese to complicate our lives further.

 

The republicans came up with mulitple ideas, none of them even made it to committee in the senate. They had jobs bills as well, same thing happened to them. Those stories don't make the news though.

 

I liked the single payer system better too...... unfortunate the repubbies didn't care for it.

[Vagrant0]

And this is exactly why nobody is doing anything about the real problems that exist:

 

We're too busy bickering over politics and trying to lay the blame on each other or make excuses for why the weak actions they do take never go anywhere.

[HeyYou]

We have become a nation divided, right down party lines. Yep. That is THE biggest problem we have today. Trouble is, I don't see it changing. It has become a contest of wills, and no one is willing to compromise even a little bit, as it would give them the appearance of being 'soft on party positions', or something equally as stupid. Doesn't matter to the powers that be though. They still get their paychecks, all their benefits are stil lin place, and they have no trouble at all making ends meet, on the nice fat checks they get from the taxpayers. According to popular theory, they are supposed to work FOR us. Now, apparently, it is US that works so they have the money to ensure their checks cash. But, we have many out of work....

 

We REALLY need some campaign finance reform if we EVER want to get our government back under control. Problem there is, the only folks that CAN change it, are the very same folks that profit the most from NOT changing it. The big money players can also buy any legislation they choose, to make sure that nothing ever does change, and they can retain their grip on power, even though it is 'behind the scenes', sorta.

 

And that is why I really don't hold out much hope for our country. Positions are entrenched, change is extremely unlikely. We are on course to bankrupt the country, and all the power elite care about is hanging on to power RIGHT NOW. Doesn't seem to matter to them that when things DO go belly up, THEY are going to be the ones in the crosshairs. But then, they will just move to their vacation home in the Cayman Islands, or Europe..... and let us all go to hell in the handbasket they created.