The U.S. National debt. Ideas how to help bring it down...

[JimboUK]

Borrowing money is only a problem if you are unable to pay it back. For some reason the republicans keep to the idea there is no way to pay back any money we borrow demanding more cutting to government and programs with nothing constructive to create an environment for our country to economically flourish so the middle class can build back up. Yes maybe we can't pay back money we borrow "right away" but then who can when they are in debt?

 

Right now the stock market has reached record highs, businesses and corporation are doing better in net gain in income since 2009 crash, yet the middle class seems to keep shrinking. This has nothing to do about "ObamaCare" some businesses are just using the new healthcare law as an ideological excuse when in fact almost ever corporation and business can afford to hire and provide healthcare for their full time employees. There is absolutely no evidence The healthcare law has any negative effect on job growth or driving up cost or even on insurance costs. Most the people who have been kicked off their old insurance plans had junk insurance to begin with. providing below average quality, some only allowing 2 to 3 visits to a doctor a year then subsidies would be completely cut off the rest of the year. If people got cut off their old plans they are now only paying a few hundred more a year and they are paying for the quality of a new standard of service which won't leave them in the dust in time of need even based on "pre-existing conditions". Funny I mention this because a few years ago I had to pay more for insurance because I am a "woman". Before just being female use to be considered a "pre-existing condition" for some healthcare plans... In fact this year, I am saving almost $400 because of the new healthcare law.

 

I can solely blame the republicans in office if I want. Just looking at the record since Obama took office they have done nothing legislatively but obstruction....

 

Yields are at record lows at the moment but they won't stay that way forever, once they return to more normal levels you ain't going to be able to pay back what you owe now let alone another few trillion. The U.S and Western Europe are like those people who borrow on one credit card to pay the debt on another while applying for more cards, sooner or later someone is going to say no. To be honest it's going to take a default to wake those up who think you can borrow your way out of debt, sadly it'll be the poorest who bear the brunt of it, they'll be the ones going hungry while food is traded for commodities because you're shut out of the markets.

[HeyYou]

 

Borrowing money is only a problem if you are unable to pay it back. For some reason the republicans keep to the idea there is no way to pay back any money we borrow demanding more cutting to government and programs with nothing constructive to create an environment for our country to economically flourish so the middle class can build back up. Yes maybe we can't pay back money we borrow "right away" but then who can when they are in debt?

 

Right now the stock market has reached record highs, businesses and corporation are doing better in net gain in income since 2009 crash, yet the middle class seems to keep shrinking. This has nothing to do about "ObamaCare" some businesses are just using the new healthcare law as an ideological excuse when in fact almost ever corporation and business can afford to hire and provide healthcare for their full time employees. There is absolutely no evidence The healthcare law has any negative effect on job growth or driving up cost or even on insurance costs. Most the people who have been kicked off their old insurance plans had junk insurance to begin with. providing below average quality, some only allowing 2 to 3 visits to a doctor a year then subsidies would be completely cut off the rest of the year. If people got cut off their old plans they are now only paying a few hundred more a year and they are paying for the quality of a new standard of service which won't leave them in the dust in time of need even based on "pre-existing conditions". Funny I mention this because a few years ago I had to pay more for insurance because I am a "woman". Before just being female use to be considered a "pre-existing condition" for some healthcare plans... In fact this year, I am saving almost $400 because of the new healthcare law.

 

I can solely blame the republicans in office if I want. Just looking at the record since Obama took office they have done nothing legislatively but obstruction....

 

Yields are at record lows at the moment but they won't stay that way forever, once they return to more normal levels you ain't going to be able to pay back what you owe now let alone another few trillion. The U.S and Western Europe are like those people who borrow on one credit card to pay the debt on another while applying for more cards, sooner or later someone is going to say no. To be honest it's going to take a default to wake those up who think you can borrow your way out of debt, sadly it'll be the poorest who bear the brunt of it, they'll be the ones going hungry while food is traded for commodities because you're shut out of the markets.

 

This is exactly what they are doing. Unfortunately, just like those people you describe, they ARE going to keep doing it as long as they can, and when someone says "No", the feces is REALLY going to hit the fan.

 

Now, just imagine the impact on the world economy when the US dollar instantly becomes worthless. Won't that be fun?

[JimboUK]

 

This is exactly what they are doing. Unfortunately, just like those people you describe, they ARE going to keep doing it as long as they can, and when someone says "No", the feces is REALLY going to hit the fan.

 

Now, just imagine the impact on the world economy when the US dollar instantly becomes worthless. Won't that be fun

 

Yep, trillions vanishing overnight, fun times all round. I'd watch for when the U.S govt nationalises pensions and other funds to "protect" them, that is the time to buy gold and run for the border, it'll be a cash grab in a vain attempt to stave off the inevitable. The E.U is already putting in place a scheme that will allow the banks to steal 10% of all funds held in Eurozone banks, it's a desperate act made necessary because both the banks and member states are broke, the theft of peoples pensions will no doubt follow.

[HeyYou]

I have noticed that the price of gold has dropped significantly lately..... which would tend to make folks think that things were 'good'...... I begin to wonder if that isn't just a sign that the end is clsoer than we would really like to believe, and the market is being manipulated so folks can make the most of their money, before it becomes toilet paper.

 

Yeah, ok, I am indeed wearing a tin-foil hat....... :D

 

But, am I just being paranoid here??

 

Greece has already fleeced its investors. One would think that folks with a a brain cell to fold over and rub on itself should realize that doing it once, makes it childs play to do it a second time. I am truly surprised that ANY of the banks survived that particular move. Were it MY money that had stolen a percentage of, the rest of it would most certainly be moving someplace else, just as quickly as I could possibly arrange it.

 

Personally, I think the E.U. was a bad plan. The fiscally responsible states are now going to have to bail out the rest, and it's gonna cost. Big time. If they don't, then the entire E.U. dissolves in any event. But, once again, loaning folks money to get them out of debt simply isn't going to help them. Austerity measures have actually proven to WORSEN the economy..... and the people are going to be upset. Putting it mildly.

 

Was five years a conservative estimate of the coming of the collapse?

[colourwheel]

 

I have noticed that the price of gold has dropped significantly lately..... which would tend to make folks think that things were 'good'...... I begin to wonder if that isn't just a sign that the end is clsoer than we would really like to believe, and the market is being manipulated so folks can make the most of their money, before it becomes toilet paper.

 

Yeah, ok, I am indeed wearing a tin-foil hat....... :D

 

Hey don't forget If you buy cheap gold now from some places you get a free 15 kilogram "Anti-Theft Safety Box" so you can store and secure your gold in. Which ironically is small enough for anyone really wanting to steal something could just actually take and lift the entire safety box by hand with not much of a hassle. :D

 

Edit: Honestly if it ever came down to where the US dollar was completely worthless, it would have so much of drastic effect on the "world economy" where you would be better off just stocking up on food and water instead of gold....

Edited January 10, 2014 by colourwheel

[HeyYou]

 

 

I have noticed that the price of gold has dropped significantly lately..... which would tend to make folks think that things were 'good'...... I begin to wonder if that isn't just a sign that the end is clsoer than we would really like to believe, and the market is being manipulated so folks can make the most of their money, before it becomes toilet paper.

 

Yeah, ok, I am indeed wearing a tin-foil hat....... :D

 

Hey don't forget If you buy cheap gold now from some places you get a free 15 kilogram "Anti-Theft Safety Box" so you can store and secure your gold in. Which ironically is small enough for anyone really wanting to steal something could just actually take and lift the entire safety box by hand with not much of a hassle. :D

 

Edit: Honestly if it ever came down to where the US dollar was completely worthless, it would have so much of drastic effect on the "world economy" where you would be better off just stocking up on food and water instead of gold....

 

Now THAT is something I will most certainly agree on. :)

[JimboUK]

I have noticed that the price of gold has dropped significantly lately..... which would tend to make folks think that things were 'good'...... I begin to wonder if that isn't just a sign that the end is clsoer than we would really like to believe, and the market is being manipulated so folks can make the most of their money, before it becomes toilet paper.

 

Yeah, ok, I am indeed wearing a tin-foil hat....... :D

 

But, am I just being paranoid here??

 

Greece has already fleeced its investors. One would think that folks with a a brain cell to fold over and rub on itself should realize that doing it once, makes it childs play to do it a second time. I am truly surprised that ANY of the banks survived that particular move. Were it MY money that had stolen a percentage of, the rest of it would most certainly be moving someplace else, just as quickly as I could possibly arrange it.

 

Personally, I think the E.U. was a bad plan. The fiscally responsible states are now going to have to bail out the rest, and it's gonna cost. Big time. If they don't, then the entire E.U. dissolves in any event. But, once again, loaning folks money to get them out of debt simply isn't going to help them. Austerity measures have actually proven to WORSEN the economy..... and the people are going to be upset. Putting it mildly.

 

Was five years a conservative estimate of the coming of the collapse?

 

The Euro has been a disaster waiting to happen from day one, what those of us who were against it said would happen did happen. Things are only quiet at the moment because of the obscene amount of money pumped into the ECB via printing, the problem is that they've not dealt with the underlying issues so sooner or later the wheels are going to fall off again. I don't think it'll be the dollar that'll collapse the world economy, it'll more than likely be the Euro. As for when, it could be tomorrow or in twenty years time, it all depends on how long they can get away with it, but when it happens it'll happen quickly and most us will be royally screwed. Even if the unlikely happens and we get away with it what happens when the trillions they've printed finds its way into the world economy? inflation will be rampant.

[KakeiTheWolf]

Unfortunately, we've gone beyond the point of correction. The Grand Supercycle has to end.

 

With Obamacare as the final nail in our coffin, we face a looming threat of imminent collapse, as there is no winning strategy concerning the health care bubble collapsing. We could have done something years ago (a lot of things), but they won't do anything now. All we can do is sit and wait for the collapse of the global economy.

[Xplode441]

There is simply no way to decrease the national debt while keeping people happy.

Now as you're asking me, I'd:

 

Eliminate our standing army and cut future defense spending by 3/4

Work on the deportation of illegal workers

Remove the minimum wage

Decrease gas taxes

Cut the corporate tax rate by 1/2 for companies that maintain more factories on the US mainland than offshore

Cut foreign spending by 3/4

Eliminate most of the bureaucracy surrounding medicare and medicaid and get the paperwork required for hospitals down to a single sheet in order to help them cut costs of healthcare

Place a cap on interest that can be accrued from loans to 5%

End the federal reserve, place the responsibility and accountability of printing capital back to the US Congress

No more interest on student loans

Deflate the artificial price of university education

 

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head.

[TRoaches]

There is simply no way to decrease the national debt while keeping people happy.

Now as you're asking me, I'd:

 

Eliminate our standing army and cut future defense spending by 3/4

Work on the deportation of illegal workers

Remove the minimum wage

Decrease gas taxes

Cut the corporate tax rate by 1/2 for companies that maintain more factories on the US mainland than offshore

Cut foreign spending by 3/4

Eliminate most of the bureaucracy surrounding medicare and medicaid and get the paperwork required for hospitals down to a single sheet in order to help them cut costs of healthcare

Place a cap on interest that can be accrued from loans to 5%

End the federal reserve, place the responsibility and accountability of printing capital back to the US Congress

No more interest on student loans

Deflate the artificial price of university education

 

That's about all I can think of off the top of my head.

These are all good ideas, but most of them would never have any hope of being be implemented. Here is why:

 

Eliminate our standing army and cut future defense spending by 3/4

Cut the corporate tax rate by 1/2 for companies that maintain more factories on the US mainland than offshore

Cut foreign spending by 3/4

Eliminate most of the bureaucracy surrounding medicare and medicaid and get the paperwork required for hospitals down to a single sheet in order to help them cut costs of healthcare

Place a cap on interest that can be accrued from loans to 5%

End the federal reserve, place the responsibility and accountability of printing capital back to the US Congress

No more interest on student loans

Deflate the artificial price of university education

 

....would all be lobbied out of existence by the companies that would stand to lose if these measures were implemented. Congress will not act in the interests of the US public if doing so would upset their corporate financial backers or interrupt the support that they receive from them.