CS crashing on save

[chambcra]

Thanks Striker for the heads-up on closing windows. I'll keep that in mind.

 

Thanks Roman for taking the time and trouble to try and duplicate the problem. I was using TES4Gecko version 15.2 too and that program has been the real workhorse for me. Making new lands has been a nightmare for me and I couldn't have done it without TES4Gecko, not with working landscape LOD. I still don't know for sure if it's bug free or I haven't make an operator error though. Looking at other ways of doing these same functions may be something I'll have to do yet.

 

Thanks GamerRick for you thoughts on the CSE. I've considered switching over to it a few times and I've always decided the extra complexity isn't worth the benefits for the simple things I do. Now maybe it's different and I really will be better off if I take the time to figure it out and start using it. Maybe I wouldn't have this problem if I'd switched over a long time ago. Even though it "seems" like I could start with CSE right now and this problem wouldn't be a problem I'd still like to figure the problem out before I move ahead with CSE. Something doesn't seem right whether CSE complains or not. I have CSE installed on a separate testing computer so I can work with that for a while and see how it goes. I don't doubt what you say about the huge benefits but I can't help but wonder how Bethesda made 271 MB of content with this supposedly exact same program.

 

Thanks to everyone else for looking.

 

As I was working on Temp2 I was making copies and archiving them as I went. I have 69 previous copies. I've found that using the 1st (oldest) copy I can merge it into my esm and then start a new esp successfully. The second oldest copy has the same failure as my final Temp2 so you'd think the problem is something in the difference between those two. There is one item in the second that's not in the first that looks suspicious which is a light in a cave that is deleted. It doesn't show in the cell window but if you text search for the RefId it shows up and also in the object window it shows in the use info of the object. It seems weird that deleted items never really disappear completely. In my final Temp2 it shows up in the cell window as "disabled at start" so that's something that's definitely goofy (I know I didn't make it disabled at start), I've tried to delete it with Tes4Edit but the RefId is still in there showing as deleted. Is that a fact nothing can ever be completely deleted?

 

Another thing that looks like a problem is if I load LostRiver.esp and Temp2.esp in Tes4Edit my third world space shows up in both esp sections colored red. I gather that means a problem but I don't know yet how to analyze that for why is it red.

 

 

I have several ideas to work on which is better than being stumped but stopping production to figure out something I maybe don't have to worry about is a bit questionable I'll admit. Taking some time now to learn the tools available for fixing any bug that can happen might pay off though. We'll see.

[RomanR]

In case of conflicts the last mod in order will win, so it should not make CS crash. What happens if you set up ignore flag to records you suspect to cause problems (selecting Details... and then pressing Delete key on chosen record before loading)?

[chambcra]

That's a good idea and I was able to find it and set the ignore flag but then I realized that was in Temp2 so I tried again with the new esm that has temp2 merged in and the record is missing in the esm so maybe when esp's are merged to masters is when records are completely removed. I'll have to quit today and think some more on it tomorrow. I could try this ignore flag in temp2 and save it before doing the merge. BTW if I load the old esm, LR.esp, and temp2.esp I can save a new temp3.esp and add new content. I could maybe keep adding new esp's this way until I had 10 esp's and then merge them all at the end but I'd rather get this merging problem figured out before doing any more of the grunt work.

 

Thanks

[GamerRick]

Did you try ESMifying LostRiver.esp before loading it in the CS as a master to another esp?

Edited September 3, 2023 by GamerRick

[chambcra]

I haven't tried it but that's a good idea. That might be a good test but part of LostRiver.esp has to be in an esp. All of LostRiver.esp used to be in the esm until I found out you can't make changes to the exterior Tamriel in a esm or it will bug the Tamriel landscape distant LOD. It was working fine in my new lands but back in Tamriel all the landscape distant LOD disappeared. I don't remember exactly how I split the esp from the esm but it must have been with Tes4Gecko and I don't know why there is a bit more in it than just the Tamriel edits. The only thing I've done in Tamriel is added two rocks and three doors. I could try and make it so only the Tamriel changes are in the esp but I was planning on having an esp with the NPC's and creatures anyway so I didn't think a few extra items would hurt. In the meantime I've seen something that looks to me like it could be the crux of the problem.

 

On this CS wiki page it says: "There seem to limits on how much an esp can change refs placed by another esp. In particular, an esp cannot delete refs placed by another esp. However, one esp can move refs placed by another esp. (Verify?)"

 

Going back to my testing of my archived copies of Temp2 and the 1st copy works (merges in with no problem) and the 2nd copy doesn't and there isn't a lot of difference but one item is I deleted a light (in a cave) that's in LostRiver.esp. So, I think that has to be it. What RomanR suggested should be the fix. Maybe I misunderstood and thought he was saying to do the undelete thing in my new esm but if I did undelete the light in temp2 before doing the merge into the esm it would fix it. This also makes sense why not loading LostRiver.esp with the new esm enables me to save a new Temp3. Sounds good on paper but it hasn't worked yet. Also, it seems like deleting this light in LostRiver.esp should fix it too but hasn't. So, I think I will go back to my testing with my 1st and 2nd archived copies of Temp2 and see if I can get it straightened out there. If that doesn't work I may have to punt and start a new life with CSE.

 

Thanks

[RomanR]

Yes, I didn't ment it to undelete. Setting an ignore flag will result the object marked this way will not load and CS will behave as it wasn't never created and after saving the object is gone completely. This is often used to revert unwanted changes or edits made by an accident. Also you can try it to make unwanted object to be gone, if it's still around somewhat and if you're sure that isn't used or attached anymore.

 

But if it didn't help, you propably must make changes mentioned in Temp2 step-by-step to learn what did go wrong.

[chambcra]

Okay, gotcha, I think. I had my first experience with the details button a while back and it's coming back to me that what you described is commonly known as "undelete and disable references" (maybe in Tes4edit). My info came from here and here. It's confusing to me anyway because to get rid of a "delete" marked record you ironically hit the delete key to toggle the ignore flag. That's my understanding anyway.

 

So, I think then what you say is exactly right and I need to find what went wrong with the 2nd archive temp2 to learn one way or another if this is the issue. Then if my final Temp2 can't be fixed this same way then there may be more than one problem.

 

Correct me if we're not on the same page.

 

Thanks

Edited September 4, 2023 by chambcra

[chambcra]

I verified that my 1st archived Temp2 works and the 2nd does not. I set the ignore flag for the questionable record in this 2nd archived Temp2 and saved. Then merged it into my esm and was able to save a new Temp3 but I got 3 errors.

Assert at õõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿ¯¯¯ÿ, 1629516914
Assert at õõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿõõõÿ¯¯¯ÿ, 1629516914
Failed to CreateGroupData for CELL form 'Wilderness' (01019414)

It seems to me it is this deletion of a record that is causing the problem but there may not be a way to fix it (with the standard CS) as far as merging it into an esm.

[RomanR]

First two lines clearly shows a sign of corrupted record, maybe that's why CS crashed. Maybe running a cleaning of Temp2 through TES4Edit before merging will help? Also in what version of Java interpreter you're running Gecko? it can be this program behaves differently (I use 32bit version 1.6_23 of Java) when running on higher or 64bit version.

Edited September 7, 2023 by RomanR

[chambcra]

Yeah, pretty wild and that's an improvement over crashing. I still have a few ideas to try (can't decide which is the least long shot). I have Java 7 Update 45 on Win7 64 bit (jre-7u45-windows-i586.exe). I think that's the same version I used on a WinXp 32 bit computer that I still have and could try. I've tried the quick clean with Tes4Edit 4.0.3. It found a few things but they haven't made any difference with this problem or in the game that I noticed. I've been looking but haven't found any other way to merge into master except the CS can merge to Oblivion.esm if you enable Version Control in the ini. Maybe with some name changing I could try that. Also, I stumbled onto a newer version of Tes4Gecko (15.2F) called TesIVGecko. It's only slightly different I think. At the moment I'm leaning away from Tes4Gecko being the problem but not ruling it out either. I'm thinking, if I want to pursue this, I need to find a way to copy from one esp to another manually. That way I can make an esp that has nothing but my edits to the Tamriel worldspace and the other stuff that is in LostRiver.esp (that seems to be the problem) can go back into the esm.

Thanks

 

Edit: I gave my easiest long-shot a try. I merged LostRiver.esp back into LostRiver.esm. I merged TempWork2.esp into LostRiver.esm. I started the game with just the esm checked and as expected Tamriel was totally screwed up and more than just the landscape LOD. I loaded LostRiver.esm in Tes4Gecko with the Display/Copy function. In the first level tree window I clicked the Tamriel worldspace and hit the copy to clipboard. I clicked the ignore button to get that out of the esm. I saved the clipboard and the esm. Now I have Gecko clipboard.esp (2 KB) that is loading the whole thing into the game and a quick try of the first door into the first cave is working. Also, the CS is saving a new TempWork3.esp. It's definitely hard to believe it could be that easy but I think I'll take a day off before I really test it out.

Edited September 8, 2023 by chambcra