Communism

[Stanhead]

When I posted "That post" about communism (and inevitably caused a thread to be created in my honour), I think you misunderstood me.

 

1. I do not support communism, I just believe it was a good idea that sadly went a bit wrong.

2. I did not say ALL americans hate communism, I said most americans that I know (or have spoken to on the internet) are against it.

3. FOX DOES brainwash Americans. This needs no argument whatsoever. ;)

[draighox]

No, it doesn't prove it is evil, unless any other system (such as capitalism) is also evil.

Well, you might want to prove that capitalism is evil. And I can't see how communism being evil is related to capitalism being evil. Are you saying that if capitalism isn't evil, communism isn't as well? Does capitalism being evil or not somehow changes the principles of communism? I say, if communism is evil, then it is, no matter how evil are other regimes.

[Peregrine]

First, a reply to the idea that's been said far too many times to quote individually:

 

An idea that fails to account for basic human nature is fundamentally flawed. And when that failure means that it will inevitably cause massive harm if tried in the real world, that idea is evil. Not quite as evil as the ones who use it in reality, but still not a good idea.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

====================================================

 

1. I do not support communism, I just believe it was a good idea that sadly went a bit wrong.

 

Of course, calling something a good idea is not supporting it. What dictionary are you using for your definition of support?

2. I did not say ALL americans hate communism, I said most americans that I know (or have spoken to on the internet) are against it.

 

Hating communism is a basic intelligence test. It's not just Americans that hate it, it's everyone with the intelligence to recognize its fatal flaws.

3. FOX DOES brainwash Americans. This needs no argument whatsoever.

 

It only brainwashes the stupid ones. And there are plenty of liberal news sources doing just as much brainwashing of stupid people.

[thranduill]

[quote name=KzinistZerg' date='Apr 28

 

Alright, first of all, your analogy is flawed... I dare you to explain to a wolf that it must not eat deer because eating deer makes the rest of the deer unhappy.

 

And it's called natural selection. While the ‘physical’ (as in survival skills) natural selection has slowed due to the development of society, different types of natural selection take place. If you destroy that then people become dead ends evolutionarily. Eventually. The immediate effect is that the smart people and stupid people are all supported with nothing to weed the stupid out.

[/quote]

I have not to explain anything to a wolf: it's a wolf and it's acting as a Wolf.

Beside that my intention was just explaining my idea about biological reasons of the human behaviour in relation to food,

So my idea is that, as a man, I should not have the behaviour of a wolf or of a deer. Beside that the origin of all associations between men happened for reason of mutual help and protection, so there is nothing wrong when we try to make a society where people help each other and there is no competition and exploitation

of other people (this happens in both capitalism and communism).

This exploitation of other people was not in the marxist ideology, but in the way

it has been realized, while it is a very important part of the capitalistic philosophy.

I dont see anything wrong in helping you ,if you can do the same when I need it.

About natural selection it is a very dangerous path to follow,as, at it's extremity,

it brings to the the affirmation of the strongest, does'nt matter if man or race,

and we have seen some good examples in the history (white on black,*censored* on

Jewish just to mention the last 200 years...).

But I may agree that this is the "natural" way for the wolf and the deer.

And let me ask you at the end:who is going to decide who is smart and who is supidt and who has to be weeded away? You or me? I think that Hitler was considering himself very smart......

I am afraid that most of us consider themselves very,very smart....

And finally, to answer to Peregrine, I dont think there is a "basic human nature"

Eventually education is the real problem : you may educate people to different behaviours, but who will do it if we, first, are not trying to educate ourselves?

[CrazyGilbert]

it is, just look at the mess stalin turned russia into at the time.

[draighox]

This exploitation of other people was not in the marxist ideology, but in the way

it has been realized, while it is a very important part of the capitalistic philosophy.

On, the contrary, exploitation is in the Marxist ideology. The more efficient must work for others. You don't have to work for anyone under capitalism.

Please show me where exactly is exploitation in capitalistic philosophy.

 

I dont see anything wrong in helping you ,if you can do the same when I need it.

That's capitalism. There is nothing wrong helping others willingly. Under communism, you must do it, which is exploitation.

[Stanhead]

Of course, calling something a good idea is not supporting it.

I'm glad we agree.

 

Hating communism is a basic intelligence test. It's not just Americans that hate it, it's everyone with the intelligence to recognize its fatal flaws.

I recognise its fatal flaws, but I don't hate it.

 

It only brainwashes the stupid ones.

Exactly.

[KzinistZerg]

:( The sad thing is that there's a darn lot of 'stupid' ones in this world.

Not that listening to FOX is a bad idea. It isnt.

 

As for 'there is nothing wrong with making a community of people that help each other'

 

There isn't. I would support you if you had a plan that actually works. So long as we have an 'us and them' philosophy it won't work.

 

And responding to thranduill-

 

.... Did you not realize that evolution is survival of the fittest- that while it works on individual people, it works on communities, races, species, animal kingdoms, and life as a whole?

 

-

 

I am stronger. I fight you, you die. I win.- this is brute strength.

 

I am weaker, but can use my ingenuity to kill you. I win.-this is cleverness

 

I am the same strength as you, but other attributes allows me to win. –this is other stuff

 

Change the ‘I’ and the ‘you’ in each to “my tribe” and “your tribe” or state, or country. Then, change it to species. Then change ‘I’ to ‘life’ and ‘You’ to ‘other forces’ and you get the same thing. This is how it works. The I and You can be switched to fit the situation.

 

And whoah, what, bringing the weakest is right? Would you rather humanity become strong, physically adept, and mentally quick, or would you have it become a group of whining people who can barely lift twigs that can’t defend themselves against ants?

 

Having the weakest survive isn’t a good thing… but before you call me callous realize that a ‘weak’ person is one who renders no service to society or to life as a whole. A wheelchair patient can still be the most valuable member of a community and a giant can still be the most worthless.

[thranduill]

This exploitation of other people was not in the marxist ideology, but in the way

it has been realized, while it is a very important part of the capitalistic philosophy.

On, the contrary, exploitation is in the Marxist ideology. The more efficient must work for others. You don't have to work for anyone under capitalism.

Please show me where exactly is exploitation in capitalistic philosophy.

 

I dont see anything wrong in helping you ,if you can do the same when I need it.

That's capitalism. There is nothing wrong helping others willingly. Under communism, you must do it, which is exploitation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most probably I cannot explain myself very well.

In marxism this is a service,not an obligation, and if we do not consider the

fact that the dream (because it is a dream) of Marx was based on a non competitive society, we cannot arrive to any conclusion. but see the terrible mistakes that the "communist" (?) leaders have done.

You ask me were is exactly exploitation in capitalism? When 15% of the world

population (USA and Europe mainly) is using 85% of the resources?

The computer we are using now has been made in China or Thailand, using

underpaid workers, (and often 8-10 years old workers) and you ask me were is exploitation? May be we are living on different planets....

And now that China is starting to develop as an industrial country (being communist

only by name and fascist as a matter of fact), we cry that our workers are losing their job and we speak about protecting our goods (before we were speaking of free market..).

And if China will became very rich,we will became very poor, as we have done

with Africa in the last centuries ( from slaves to industrial minerals just to say ).

Pls. note that I am not communist at all, but I cannot recognise myself in the

capitalistic way of acting.

In my opinion the earth does'nt pertain to us, but we pertain to the earth,as

all the living things on this planet.

[draighox]

In marxism this is a service,not an obligation, and if we do not consider the

fact that the dream (because it is a dream) of Marx was based on a non competitive society, we cannot arrive to any conclusion.

Not obligation? I'm not quite sure about that. Why was he talking about revolution then? About the dictatorship of the proletarian? Isn't that enforcement?

 

You ask me were is exactly exploitation in capitalism? When 15% of the world

population (USA and Europe mainly) is using 85% of the resources?

The computer we are using now has been made in China or Thailand, using

underpaid workers, (and often 8-10 years old workers) and you ask me were is exploitation? May be we are living on different planets....

I was talking about theory, because this thead is about communism in theory, IMO. You want to talk about practise? OK. Look at Russia, look at China, look at Chile. Do you still think communism is better than capitalism in practise?