Cannot successfully create Previs on locations Vault95 and Vault81.

[orangedeal]

Some objects do not display normally (appear and disappear). This only happens if I get to these locations by elevator and under the condition that in the current game session these locations were not already loaded: I started the game, loaded the location before entering the elevator (Vault95Ext or Vault81Entry) and go down the elevator. Then visual glitches appear. But when I launch the game and immediately get into Vault95 and Vault81 through the coc command, there are no glitches. If after loading these internal locations I exit them by elevator, then going up on the elevator and then going down again, then there are no glitches either.

I tried everything I could find on the Internet and the only thing that helped was adding the "BlockPreVis" entry in the "Location Ref Type" field in the properties of so many objects, for example all objects: Vault_Shelf_*, VltGreebConduit*, VltGreebVent*, VltLGHallHalf01_PipesCeiling* and some others. After another redo of PreCombines and Previs everything became normal. I found this here - https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/articles/4316

Why is this and what does the elevator ride have to do with it? I can only assume that the same situation would have happened in other vaults, for example, Vault75, if there was location loading when riding the elevator.

As far as I can tell, there are no conflicts among the mods (I disabled others). Did I do something wrong?

[orangedeal]

As I feared, this applies to all locations that the player enters through loading while riding the elevator. MassFusion01/02 and others. That is, it turns out that after creating PreCombines Geometry & Visibility, I will still have to edit many objects, adding BlockPreVis and updating PreCombines. And in those locations where performance does not drop significantly due to broken PreCombines, the famous Room Bounds and Portal Basics are broken, not all of which I was able to fix.

Could I have made a mistake somewhere? I checked everything about elevators again and couldn't find anything suspicious that could affect the created Previs

[worm82075]

On 5/31/2024 at 6:46 AM, orangedeal said:

Why is this and what does the elevator ride have to do with it?

Just wild speculation but Fallout 4 is Bethesda's first engine to us the precombine rendering system. Now just bear with me for a moment. The precombines break if the data doesn't match when loaded into memory. And if broken the disappearing and reappearing renders are indicative of that break. The elevators are used to mask a loading screen so the cell you are entering is being loaded while a havok animation is playing. It's might be possible that the havok sequence is causing the pre-combine data to mismatch and break during the load to RAM. Again wild speculation but that is what i am thinking.

[orangedeal]

11 hours ago, worm82075 said:

The elevators are used to mask a loading screen so the cell you are entering is being loaded while a havok animation is playing.

This is very likely. Does this happen to everyone who has done precombines? Maybe I did something wrong somewhere? So far I haven't been able to find a solution and so I just add BlockPreVis to the many glitched objects in the locations. I don't want to uncheck the Non Occluder checkbox for all objects in the game, because I don't know what negative effect this can create in all locations.

So far, the most terrible thing I've seen was when I took the elevator from the Vault81Entry location to Vault81Secret... The second screenshot is what it looks like if I save the game in this location, restart the game and load the save.

Edited June 3, 2024 by orangedeal

[worm82075]

Are you sure your new data is being accepted? Have you tested to see whether or not the data is broken after the load. What if it is as simple as the engine loading the vanilla data on the first run and then loading the replacement data thereafter. this theory can be tested by cloning the cell. As a clone it will have no vanilla data to revert to and will be forced to load yours from the start.

[orangedeal]

From what I could notice, the game always loads locations with my data. If I understood correctly what you wrote. But I first tried to make a copy of the cell, and then I realized that I didn't know how to get there by elevator. But even if this is the case, I still don't know how to solve the problem without excluding various objects from the Previs creation. It may seem incredible, but could this be affected by the 3D V-Cache on AMD's x3D series CPUs? I'll have to try disabling it in the BIOS.

So far I have made Vault81, Vault81Secret and Vault95. All these locations had similar problems. Now I encountered this on GNN01. So far, the most problems were with Vault81Secret and to fix this, I had to add BlockPreVis to almost all objects in the location. After this, the specified locations work as they should (as they are displayed when entering them without taking an elevator ride). For all the time I have done PreCombines & PreVis at many locations, but I have never noticed anything like this. Or because I only accessed them through the coc command or... because I changed the hardware? But this is very unlikely.

Spoiler

 

[PJMail]

Read my article, it explains everything about the precombine previs system. l also have a ton of tools for it in that mod. https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/articles/4316

 

Oops! You are quoting me! Sorry! Ok, what exactly is your issue? Did you run my script against your load order to highlight the mods causing the issues?

The elevator is just like fast travel so not the cause, it is the cell you enter when you exit the elevator that has issues. If it is interior then if precombines are broken then it resorts to roombounds and portals system, which can show voids if it was not intended to be used (working precombines/previs disables this older system).

[orangedeal]

On 6/4/2024 at 5:57 AM, PJMail said:

Ok, what exactly is your issue? Did you run my script against your load order to highlight the mods causing the issues?

The sequence is this: I load GreenetechGenetics01 into CK and create:

- PreCombine Geometry for Current Cell
- Generate Visibility for All Loaded Cells (or Current Cell)
- Generate Precombined Visibility for All Loaded Cells (or Current Cell)

I'm starting the game and doing "coc GreenetechGenetics01" and see that everything works as it should. I restart the game and do "coc GreenetechGenetics02", which causes the player to end up at the elevator that leads to the GreenetechGenetics01 location. After the elevator ride, I find myself at the GreenetechGenetics01 location and see a lot of visual glitches (as is the case with MassFusion02, Vault81, Vault81Secret and Vault95 - more precisely, in all the locations where I did geometry and visibility and where I get on the elevator).

At the time of testing, I disabled all other plugins. So far I have solved the problem by excluding many objects from creating Visibility, but this is long and tedious, because in some locations I can't add the BlockPreVis parameter to everything, because the performance might drop too much. As I understand it, when adding this key, the object is excluded from creating geometry too?

Another thought came to me that the problem might be that I find myself at different points in the location - on the elevator in one place of the location, and through the coc command in another. Therefore, I placed an NPC near the exit point from the elevator and from the main menu of the game I executed player.moveto ID, which allowed me to be right at the elevator and there were no visual glitches.

Edited June 5, 2024 by orangedeal

[PJMail]

- PreCombine Geometry for Current Cell
- Generate Visibility for All Loaded Cells (or Current Cell)
- Generate Precombined Visibility for All Loaded Cells (or Current Cell)

Where are you getting that sequence from? - it is wrong very outdated. If you ignore the advice I give in that article then you are on your own.

If you must do it the long hard bugged manual way then follow what I said

• For each such Cluster, find the Cell in the "Cell View" list you want to build precombines for, select 'view' and wait for it to be rendered, then select "Precombine Geometry for Current Cell" off the "World" Menu.
• The Cell Preview window will freeze during this so wait for it to become active again, then Repeat with the next Cell in that Cluster, etc.
• I suggest you regularly "save" after each cell as the CK is prone to crashing.
• Once you have done all the Cells you plan to in that Cluster, Select "Generate Precombined Visibility for Current Cell" off the "Visibility" menu. This will take a long time and finish with a confirmation box.
• Save again and repeat for the next Cluster until you are done.

You 'can' use Generate Visibility for All Loaded Cells, instead of current cell, but that is just a lot of unnecessary cells rebuilt.

Same with Precombined Visibility for all loaded cells. Safe to do but will take a lot longer.

You only use generate precombined visibility (generate visibility as well is a waste of time)

Also you can't build precombines/previs in isolation (excluding mods) and expect it to work when you re-enable mods. I explain that in the deep dive.

 

P.S. Those voids you show in the picture are because previs is not working and the game is reverting to "Roombounds and Portals" (an older previs system) which I bet was not set up for that cell as it was expected to use the newer previs system.

[orangedeal]

2 hours ago, PJMail said:

You 'can' use Generate Visibility for All Loaded Cells, instead of current cell, but that is just a lot of unnecessary cells rebuilt.

In the case of internal locations, I tried both ways - I didn't see any difference. But is "All Loaded Cells" any different if we have an internal location? After all, we still only have 1 cell. A few years ago I was trying to figure this out because I didn't know what to choose.

 

2 hours ago, PJMail said:

Also you can't build precombines/previs in isolation (excluding mods) and expect it to work when you re-enable mods. I explain that in the deep dive.

When changing the location in my plugin, only ESMs were loaded (no other plugins). At the time of testing, only one plugin was active. I tried to do everything to avoid conflicts.

 

2 hours ago, PJMail said:

Those voids you show in the picture are because previs is not working and the game is reverting to "Roombounds and Portals" (an older previs system) which I bet was not set up for that cell as it was expected to use the newer previs system.

And this happens only when entering a location on an elevator. When I get to this location in a different way, everything works. I can also save the game after riding the elevator, then reload the game and load the save - everything works too. On external locations, I had no problems creating all this (once I figured out how to do it) on dozens of locations.

For now this will remain a mystery to me...