We need a save cleaner utility

[mejoff]

Save games get filled up with loose references and become unusable. Apparently starting NG+ fixes this, but I'm in no position to try even if I wanted to do that. 

 

Currently I can't save.

We've had utilities for previous Bethesda games that could clean up the broken bits in save files and solve issues like this.

Is there anything in anyone's pipeline along similar lines here?

[smr1957]

Save cleaners DO NOT work, despite what you may have read elsewhere or what some mod author may have posted.  This goes all the way back to the earliest of Bethesda games.  Data once written to a save is in it for good, and removing references is a surefire way to break the save even further or bork it completely - if it is not already.

[mejoff]

That's so funny to hear because I've had really positive results with them in previous games. Is it possible that you are universalising a negative experience that you've had?

[smr1957]

4 hours ago, mejoff said:

That's so funny to hear because I've had really positive results with them in previous games. Is it possible that you are universalising a negative experience that you've had?

No. I am basing it on literally thousands upon thousands of hours experience - tens of thousands, in fact - and in helping with issues regarding games (many brought about by using said tools), as well as what is also stated by the author of one of the best known tools - Fallrim Save Tool by Markdf - right on that mod's description page - and by what is known of how Bethesda saves work in their games - information that has been known and verified going all the way back to early Bethesda games.  In fact, any information I may post is based upon my experience in helping others and in study of the game itself over those very many thousands of hours, and not my own personal experience (except where that personal experience may exceed and surpass what is common usage and do so by an extreme amount).

 

But, it is your game to play or break as you choose, and the information posted by those who know can be ignored should a person so choose.

[HeyYou]

1 hour ago, smr1957 said:

No. I am basing it on literally thousands upon thousands of hours experience - tens of thousands, in fact - and in helping with issues regarding games (many brought about by using said tools), as well as what is also stated by the author of one of the best known tools - Fallrim Save Tool by Markdf - right on that mod's description page - and by what is known of how Bethesda saves work in their games - information that has been known and verified going all the way back to early Bethesda games.  In fact, any information I may post is based upon my experience in helping others and in study of the game itself over those very many thousands of hours, and not my own personal experience (except where that personal experience may exceed and surpass what is common usage and do so by an extreme amount).

 

But, it is your game to play or break as you choose, and the information posted by those who know can be ignored should a person so choose.

Any tool is a gamble.... Heck, just using mods in general is a gamble..... There are far too many ways to stuff your save file, or the whole game. Judicious use of the tools can actually SAVE your save..... I have direct experience with this..... But yeah, monkeying with the file directly CAN be dangerous, especially if you don't know what you are doing. And yes, as pointed out in Fallrim tools description, it is entirely possible for the cleaning process to break your save. Of course, if you are resorting to cleaning your save in the first place, I would expect that it is ALREADY broken.... Does this mean you should NEVER use the tools??? No, it most certainly does NOT. If the author of Fallrim tools didn't think people should be using it, why on earth would he PUBLISH it???

[tarotfan]

Fallrim Save Tool works great.  Like all utilities and tools, you need to know what you are doing and when and how to use it.

A chainsaw is a great tool.  I wouldn’t recommend someone who doesn’t know how to use one just pick it up and try downing a tree. 
 

I have thousands of hours on Skyrim,Skyrim SE, Skyrim AE, Fallout4, and would not have been able to scrap crap mods and continue my game progress were it not for Fallrim Save tool.   The trick is to only remove unreferenced scripts and objects after removing a mod, and then loading the game and making a hard save.  Then run Fallrim Save tool, remove the dangling references and then load up that fixed save in game and hard save again.

I have also used the tool to remove stored chargen references from character overhaul mods when swapping from one to another. (The game save bakes in the facegen when you first encounter the npc and it makes for all kinds of weirdness when you decide to get rid of the overhaul mod and the npc just has eyes and a mouth and no head.)

I would totally embrace a Fallrim Save tool type utility for Starfield.   But just know… like using a chainsaw, you need to respect the tool or loose a limb.

[smr1957]

3 hours ago, tarotfan said:

Fallrim Save Tool works great.  Like all utilities and tools, you need to know what you are doing and when and how to use it.

A chainsaw is a great tool.  I wouldn’t recommend someone who doesn’t know how to use one just pick it up and try downing a tree. 
 

I have thousands of hours on Skyrim,Skyrim SE, Skyrim AE, Fallout4, and would not have been able to scrap crap mods and continue my game progress were it not for Fallrim Save tool.   The trick is to only remove unreferenced scripts and objects after removing a mod, and then loading the game and making a hard save.  Then run Fallrim Save tool, remove the dangling references and then load up that fixed save in game and hard save again.

I have also used the tool to remove stored chargen references from character overhaul mods when swapping from one to another. (The game save bakes in the facegen when you first encounter the npc and it makes for all kinds of weirdness when you decide to get rid of the overhaul mod and the npc just has eyes and a mouth and no head.)

I would totally embrace a Fallrim Save tool type utility for Starfield.   But just know… like using a chainsaw, you need to respect the tool or loose a limb.

And doing that has been shown to break games = as has been known for years, and as explained definitively in this somewhat longwinded, but thorough, topic linked in the pinned topic Helpful Links and References in both Steam's Skyrim forums:

You CANNOT Remove Mods Mid-Playthrough - http://steamcommunity.com/app/489830/discussions/0/1520386297681801135/

But this is not the place for that discussion, especially in a thread lasted posted in two months ago - so I'll leave it at that.

[melvinius]

On 9/1/2024 at 2:58 PM, mejoff said:

Save games get filled up with loose references and become unusable. Apparently starting NG+ fixes this, but I'm in no position to try even if I wanted to do that. 

 

Currently I can't save.

We've had utilities for previous Bethesda games that could clean up the broken bits in save files and solve issues like this.

Is there anything in anyone's pipeline along similar lines here?

There's a mod that adds a statue to your room in the Lodge that will take you to the Unity without finishing the main quest first.

What I would recommend, and what I've done myself, is this:

-Install mods that furnish/change the Starborn ships to exactly what you like, since you'll be getting one in NG+

-Install mods that add all the Starborn suits to the Starborn ship

-Install mods that change the Starborn suits to exactly what you like

 

I did the above, and once I got a load order I was happy with, I went into the Unity and started NG+ with a ship I like and a suit I like.

I mean, eventually if you play long enough your save will get borked and the reality is that Starfield is still mid-development cycle so updates ARE going to break things for the foreseeable future.  I figure this above approach works out well enough for now.

[melvinius]

On 11/4/2024 at 1:31 PM, smr1957 said:

And doing that has been shown to break games = as has been known for years, and as explained definitively in this somewhat longwinded, but thorough, topic linked in the pinned topic Helpful Links and References in both Steam's Skyrim forums:

You CANNOT Remove Mods Mid-Playthrough - http://steamcommunity.com/app/489830/discussions/0/1520386297681801135/

But this is not the place for that discussion, especially in a thread lasted posted in two months ago - so I'll leave it at that.

Generally correct but it depends on the scope and function of the mod.  And generally it's not a good idea to change load order around too much, but there are tricks to that too.

For those who aren't familiar with Bethesda games I'd say add mods a few at a time, test them out a bit before committing to using them 100%, and don't remove them for the duration of the playthrough.

With the NG+ Unity functionality in Starfield, you could probably remove mods and save your game right before entering the Unity.

I will say Bethsoft did a huge disservice by stating in their Creations store that you could just uncheck a mod to return to normal functionality in your save.  Uhhhhhhh.... why would they do that to new players? lol

[fraquar]

There is no utility that can protect modders from themselves.   Loose references mostly come from modders doing things they shouldn't be doing in the first place.

Kinda like a family leaving a loaded pistol in access of the children in their household.     Madness.