Lollia Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 I'm in the final stretch of conditioning some dialogue scenes, but I just encountered the problem of the Thalmor, Ondolemar. He's stationed in Understone Keep in Markarth, and according to the UESP wiki, he was supposed to properly die when the Stormcloaks took over in a scene that was removed from the final game. Quote Instead, after the Stormcloak version of The Battle for Fort Sungard is completed in the final game, the game will simply delete Ondolemar and place his belongings in a coffin in Markarth's Hall of the Dead, implying that the Stormcloak soldiers killed him when they took control of the city. Is this the same as dead? Or is he just being teleported away? I'd like to use the GetDead condition, but I'm not sure if it will sense that he's dead if he's just been disabled or teleported. Is there some other condition I can use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphered Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 In the CK there is "GetDisabled" as a condition Scriptwise there is a IsDeleted() function 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xkkmEl Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 From the quotes you provided, it is difficult to tell exactly what to test for. Papyrus isDead and the corresponding condition will tell you if the NPC died and has not been revived. Being dead is separate from disabled or deleted. Dead actors are ignored by the alias fill procedure, unless you flag allow-dead. Dead actors are still around... as a corpse. Papyrus isDisabled and the corresponding condition will tell you if he is disabled (without 3D and flagged for everyone to ignore it). Being disabled is separate from dead or deleted. Disabled references are ignored by the alias fill procedure, unless you flag allow-disabled. They are still in memory though not visible in the 3D world, and can easiy be re-enabled. Papyrus isDeleted (no corresponding condition) will tell you if the referenced is marked for deletion. Deleted references are always ignored by the alias fill procedure, though they can still be visible in game and continue to behave normally. They will disappear automatically once no quest or script references them. After that, there is no way to refer to it... if it is a created reference. If the reference is part of an esm or esp, it may still reappear when the cell they were created in respawns/resets. Any or all three of these conditions may apply. Though your quote says "deleted", I would not bank on that too heavily. You should experiment and figure out exactly what happens to know what to test for. I'll add another potential test: checking the stage on the quest that handles his deletion... though that requires tracing where and when it happens (I did not immediately find where it occurs). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorrp10 Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 I would examine references to Ondolemar using either CK or xEdit, and try to locate the script that actually deals with him, to see what is being done - a kill or a deletion. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollia Posted September 15 Author Share Posted September 15 Burning the midnight oil yet again and decided to drop by the forums. For some reason I received no notification that anyone replied back, but thank you all so much for the responses! It really means a lot. I am actively trying to figure how just where Ondolemar is removed, but it's tied to the civil war quests--supposedly Fort Sunguard--and those are always an adventure to trawl through. There's only so much testing I can do at this time--I honestly forgot that Ondolemar was referenced by the dialogue. The conversation scene is between one's spouse and child and triggered by living in Markarth. I've never actually played through the civil war quest-line before, so if the GetDead condition doesn't do the job, I'm hoping one of my users who does play through the CW will let me know if there's an issue. Been checking various CW quests and their stages, but I haven't spotted the O-man yet. (Or would it be better to say the O-mer? I need caffeine.) The two most promising scripts never referenced him at all, but I'm continuing the search. Hmm... Maybe the child only saw a Thalmor ghost? I M M E R S I O N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMartyr Posted September 15 Share Posted September 15 https://ck.uesp.net/wiki/Is3DLoaded_-_ObjectReference https://ck.uesp.net/wiki/HasLoaded3D as long as it is not a ghost... it may need other conditions with an AND or OR.. but no deleted or disabled NPC can make that true, so for dialogue (example only) is 3DLoaded is true is dead is false may be a few more on testing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollia Posted September 21 Author Share Posted September 21 On 9/15/2024 at 2:14 PM, PeterMartyr said: https://ck.uesp.net/wiki/Is3DLoaded_-_ObjectReference https://ck.uesp.net/wiki/HasLoaded3D as long as it is not a ghost... it may need other conditions with an AND or OR.. but no deleted or disabled NPC can make that true, so for dialogue (example only) is 3DLoaded is true is dead is false may be a few more on testing Unfortunately, I'm having a very tricky time just waiting for the Story Manager to kick in and play what I like to call the "Any Home" scenes, so going through the civil war quests or even just managing to reach Season Unending in order to kick Ondolemar off the mortal plane (or at least out of the game space if he's just being disabled) is not looking like a viable possibility right now. I appreciate the advice, though! I may put it to use if I ever figure out just what's going on. Those CW quest stages and attached scripts are absolutely mind-boggling to look through. Whoever at Bethesda had the questionable pleasure of working on them has both my admiration and sympathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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