Lets talk about Elves!

[Kraeten]

This isn't just about Zenimax's abomination of Lore (the appearances are only the tip of the iceberg. They totally abandoned every piece of lore for the Altmer) so much as whether or not people think that appearance is better.

 

I suppose i waxed rather whimsical in the beginning, and wasn't very concise. So i'll try again.

 

This is about the general portrayal of Mer in TES games. When Skyrim came out, people here literally screamed that Bethesda ruined their elves (ironically, on the Beth forums, people rejoiced). While the execution was sloppy (as is a running theme with TES) art like Kokomiko's and the above picture shows that you CAN create 'pretty' and interesting characters with the aesthetic.

 

For TES6 (ignoring the fact the Zenimax has already set their sights on generic disregard for the world) should we have Oblivion/ESO elves, or Skyrim. Bearing in mind of course technically superior graphics which would make Oblivion's elves less putty-faced messes, and Skyrim's elves less craggy-skinned sleep deprived zombies.

 

I suppose I did get off-topic. My apologies. To reiterate part of what I said earlier, I'd prefer the next TES to look more like Oblivion's elves. Altmer being long faced, and generally more reedy in appearance compared to other elves. Bosmer would likewise be more round faced or owl like in appearance. Dark Elves meanwhile would appear dark and regal, without looking so much like Klingon's as they did in Skyrim.

 

The more different the Mer races appear when compared with one another the better, is the bottom line for me.

[Lachdonin]

 

without looking so much like Klingon's as they did in Skyrim.

 

 

I hear this one a lot, and i don't see it. They look rather Romulan, yes, but not even remotely Klingon. The Romulan appearance is rather appropriate, considering their space-god ancestry.

 

http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130415152918/memoryalpha/en/images/9/97/Stewart_Romulan_makeup.jpg

 

VS

 

http://static1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100824121303/memoryalpha/en/images/4/4b/Provoked_Klingon_officer_1_2375.jpg

 

 

That aside. They look notably different, in skin tone and size. Bosmer also have less... pronounced brow structures. But the Dunmer and Altmer are only different because of skin tone, Azura's curse didn't change anything else.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Lachdonin

[Kraeten]

Any time I see any kind of prominent brow ridges/wrinkles I think "Klingon!", but maybe that's just because the appearance of Klingons have more firmly embedded themselves in pop-culture. *shrugs* In any case you're right they do appear more like Romulans.

 

Putting that aside, I'm of the opinion that the appearance of the races in TES should represent their respective cultures. Wood Elves looking more primal due to their close ties with nature and so forth. I'm very much a fan of strong contrasts. Putting aside lore, it just seems a waste to bother including so many races of elves if they all end up looking like simple retextures of the same 3D model. One of the things I really enjoyed about Guild wars 2 for example was just how different the five races appeared and acted.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Kraeten

[Lachdonin]

Admittedly, Beth has failed lately at portraying the various Mer as distinct. The carnivorous shape-shifting Bosmer are in stark contrast to their self indulgent, magicka-blooded Altmer neighbors, and the Velothi (the Dunmer) are even more distantly removed. Then there are the Orsimer...

 

Anyway... The thing is, they're all still Mer. They come from the same stock, as did the Drenni, the Dwemer and the Falmer. In fact, there's reasonable evidence to suggest that they come from the same stock as Trolls, Frost Giants and Giants as well.

 

I understand the appeal of visually distinct and unique races, but... That doesn't fit with the world. Are you suggesting that it should be done simply for the sake of visual appearance, without consideration for the universe in question?

[Kraeten]

For the sake of appearance yes, and for the sake of making the universe appear more diverse. Certainly there should be small hints in their appearance that hearken back to a common ancestry, but to let that common ancestry rule what they should look like in the present seems to me at least a wasted opportunity.

[Lachdonin]

I'm afraid that's not an idea i could get behind... It lessens the world, in my opinion, by forcing the differences to be more physical and less cultural. I think that the current model in TES has a nice harmony between physical and cultural differences, offering ample visual and conceptual diversity.

 

Of course, a great deal of diversity gets left behind because each game focuses on a single province... But the stark contrasts between Nords and Dunmer (who have shared a border for thousands of years) is made manifest between Skyrim and Dragonborn.

 

Even then, Oblivion offered minimal differentiation beyond height and skin tone.

 

 

*** I'm probably sounding like a bit of a broken record and a whiner here, but i'm genuinely trying to understand WHY the 'classic' elf is viewed as the proper depiction over here, as opposed to the total opposite view on the Bethesda forums

Edited February 14, 2014 by Lachdonin

[Kraeten]

And that's where we disagree. I see no reason why appearance and culture can't be synonymous. Perhaps if I believed Bethesda was already doing a good job of presenting the diversity of elder scrolls I would feel differently. But I think I've made my perspective clear enough. Cheers. :happy:

[kleinstaff]

I'm sure you do think tolkein inspired elves in TES is boring and derivative, but zenimax isn't marketing the game chiefly for lore-minded fans like yourself.

and failing pretty miserable

TES fans are sparter than the marketing division at zenimax

If they really think that all fans will go out and buy everything iwth the TES name stamped on it they are wrong

You either have to be blind or incredivle naive to believe that this will be the ultimate TES game we all been waiting for

 

and game trailers what was the last game trailer that really looked like how the actual game looks like

[EnaiSiaion]

You'd think Altmer in particular would do their best to not look like humans and would instead breed to exaggerate the differences. Altmer with human traits would be considered ugly and perhaps even killed at birth like Altmer apparently already do. Think about that before posing for skimpy Nexus pictures, you mongrel.

 

The uniqueness of TES mer is a sign of a maturing IP. This is what Dark Elves were like in Arena:

Know ye this also: Thy race is as deadly as the thorns of the black rose which blooms only in thy mother's breast. Thou hast all that is graceful in thy brothers of the day, yet thy mother is the moon, and thou art her children of the night...

Facepalm.

Edited February 14, 2014 by EnaiSiaion

[TheVampireDante]

Most of the ones yelling about the brow ridges on the Elven races in Skyrim likely started playing TES with Oblivion.

 

Morrowind had the ridges (before mods, which again - mostly removed them) - of course with the resolution and models at the time some found them hard to define, but they were present. Oblivion didn't have have them - whether due to technical matters, lack of development time for the exact race structure or just overlooked in general I won't get into - but as someone who has played TES since Arena, when I seen the races had been returned to the familiar face design, I wasn't bothered by it - was fairly happy to see it back.

 

Of course there's always work to be done on the part of modders to "fix" some of the details, but I've liked seeing the races back to how they were for the most part.