kgb5097 Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I've recently been getting my fiance interested in fallout and related canon, and was explaining to her the differences between west coast and east coast mutants, specifically super mutants and how the 2 were different (She's seen me play Fallout 3, but never 1 or 2). I was talking about how, on the east coast, it seems that only Zen Buddhists retain some of their former selves and personalities (based on clues in game) during the transformation into super mutants while on the west coast intelligent mutants seemed much more common. I explained that this was likely because of the different strain of FEV used, but she had an alternate theory... On the west coast exists the Shi, a people who have retained their culture and likely, their eastern philosophy. Perhaps the more numerous intelligent mutants on the west coast are a result of captured Shi Buddhists and not so much a different strain of FEV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chemix Posted August 4, 2009 Share Posted August 4, 2009 I think we can largely attribute their lack of intelligence to Bethesda's background: their previous major titles: the Elders Scrolls series, featured orks, ogres and trolls who are all similar in appearance to super mutants to some extent. This predisposition towards the big strong "mutant" character type being more and more stupid the larger and uglier they got (which noted exceptions: Fawkes and the other super-mutant) probably caused the large divergence we see from the originals; that and it would be a lot harder to present them as having some kind of civilization beyond tribal collectives where the same set pieces can be used and recycled and modified to small extents, and it would about double the NPC count and a lot of work would have to be done on making the Raider faction organized enough that you could save captives from them. Or they could allow you to free slaves being captured by the many slavers you encounter wandering the wastes, who rarely if ever have their "product" in tow. In short: super mutants being big, green, and muscly, lends it self to being little more than a hostile animal capable of using weapons, for Bethesda. But I might just be a bit harsh on em for their anti-support for the modding community post GECK release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4ttlock Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 I agree that bethesda has totally fudged some of the history and certain attributes to the FO lore, but my theory i guess would be that the super mutants in 1 and 2 were being produced by the master in early stages of FEV testing not by the government, maybe the earlier strain of FEV or at least the procedures were being preformed differently. Maybe the master was better at this process and was able to make some of his army not complete irradiated goons. it seems from what i've gathered that the east coast super mutants are still producing super mutants, the random luck encounter of the freindly speaking super mutant, unlce leroy or something, he mentions his brothers bring them back to the dark metal place, obviously fev vats or something. but if the mutants are continuing the process of turning humans into mutants, im sure they dont have the guidance or smarts to being doing it properly as the master had achieved. plus judging by the amount of supermutants in the capitol wasteland there no way they are gathering pure un-irradiated humans from vaults or other sources as the master strived for in 1-2. phew =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilgamefreek Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Same. The Master commented on how "purebred" humans are best for fev exposure and result in the most intelligent mutants. My guess is simply that after a good 200 years, there aren't that many pure humans left in the capital wasteland. You just have dumb mutants making more dumb mutants. I think the Zen Buddhism has less to do with reasoning and more to do with empathy and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xaechireon Posted August 5, 2009 Share Posted August 5, 2009 Personally I think Super Mutants in Fallout 3 are just plonked into the game for the sake of making it familiar to Fallout series fans. I say this because...Firstly, I don't believe super mutants of the Capital wasteland are competent enough to actually dip people properly (meaning there should either be far more centaurs, or more failed patients). Even Fawkes is kind of retarded, he's always half-yelling. Secondly, the events of Fallout 1 occurred 110 years ago, meaning the super mutants have been dipping people(looking at the facilities of Vault 87, its more like they gas them) for really long, to say the least. Its a miracle they haven't run out of green stuff or completely overrun the Capital Wasteland before the Brotherhood of Steel (and maybe the Enclave) arrived. Thirdly, it doesn't make sense to me how super mutants can wield small guns, or even procure a decent weapon, for that matter. These are just a bunch of stupid angry giants who dip and eat people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp86 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Same. The Master commented on how "purebred" humans are best for fev exposure and result in the most intelligent mutants. My guess is simply that after a good 200 years, there aren't that many pure humans left in the capital wasteland. You just have dumb mutants making more dumb mutants. I think the Zen Buddhism has less to do with reasoning and more to do with empathy and such. That can't be right though, as the original East Coast Supermutants were derived from Vault Tec Stock. Its entirely possible that the strain of FEV on the west coast and the one on the east coast are differing itterations. Perhaps the West Coast Strain was determined to produce soldiers with too much free-will to be as invincible as they were, or perhaps the east coast strain was reverse engineered from an incomplete prototype (as the west coast stock was largely destroyed (events revealed in FO2)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilneko Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 he mentions his brothers bring them back to the dark metal place, obviously fev vats or something Clearly these vats must be somewhere other than 87 -- otherwise, either Little Lamplight wouldn't exist, or super mutants are undead humans resurrected by the FEV and mutated. They wouldn't survive the trip in through the front door, after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilgamefreek Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Same. The Master commented on how "purebred" humans are best for fev exposure and result in the most intelligent mutants. My guess is simply that after a good 200 years, there aren't that many pure humans left in the capital wasteland. You just have dumb mutants making more dumb mutants. I think the Zen Buddhism has less to do with reasoning and more to do with empathy and such. That can't be right though, as the original East Coast Supermutants were derived from Vault Tec Stock. Its entirely possible that the strain of FEV on the west coast and the one on the east coast are differing itterations. Perhaps the West Coast Strain was determined to produce soldiers with too much free-will to be as invincible as they were, or perhaps the east coast strain was reverse engineered from an incomplete prototype (as the west coast stock was largely destroyed (events revealed in FO2)).That is true. I still think, because they are using radiation exposed humans at present, that is the reason for the "dumber" strain, but the FEV virus in 87 is likely different. Mariposa seemed militarized and ready to go for the most part, since it was ready for mass production. The 87 FEV seemed more experimental. Scientists were still experimenting with the virus, developing different strains and exposing the vault residents to them. From the logs, it's obvious that they had many MANY failures before they came across a working strain. The thing that all the strains shared was increased aggression, which is where the zen buddhism comes in I think. The buddhism doesn't really help with intelligence, just with personality. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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