Not looking forward to Oblivion?

[edstamos1]

Just a quick comment on Spears. (edit: lol, quick comment :P)

 

Suppose they made a spear class skill. It would encompass spears and polearms. Suppose they have Bardiches and Halberds. That's three different spear type weapons (barring material composition). Now they have a fourth weapon class. Well, if an entire weapon class is dedicated, they must be somewhat pervasive. I mean, they should be as common as two handed swords, long swords, short swords, and daggers put together, since they take up an equal skill.

 

However, who uses spears? Guards could, that's definitely realistic. But who else? The player. That's about it. Spears are somewhat unwieldly for practical combat, and have to be dropped for close combat anyway (well, not in morrowind, but from a realistic standpoint).

 

Also, if you add a new skill under strength, you'd have to either remove another, or add a new skill under each other category...

 

However, spears do add another dimension to melee - range. Normally you don't have to worry about range except with archers, but if you use a spear in melee, you should be able to hit your opponent from a distance that he can't hit you. So what to do?

 

Well, including it under Blades is a possibility. Being governed by strength is realistic (the weapon has some weight to it, and with the length requires the strength to balance it, and it's effectiveness is governed by how hard you thrust or how hard you're opponent runs into it). Alright, so what else? It's a completely thrust oriented weapon (well, to be used effectively). Many swords are used for thrusting - all short blades are most effective for thrusting, and two handed swords can be used to thrust by grabbing the ricasso with your off hand (the blunt part of the blade near the hilt)*.

 

It can't go in Blunt because that's basically bludgeoning weapons - weapons who's effectiveness comes from a clubbing action (the weight is in the end of it). Axes don't have to be sharp to kill someone. A dull axe is just as dangerous as a sharp one (when used with a chopping motion), you'll just have a harder time chopping a tree with it. Also, I shouldn't have to explain why it can't go under Marksman.

 

So there probably will be spears (or at least, it's a real possibility), just not a spear skill. Does this reduce realism? Perhaps, but it also allows your warrior to experiment with spears even though he's been using a long sword all his life. Or it allows you to use a spear throughout the game without gimping yourself in the end by having chosen a skill that doesn't have the best selection of weapons.

 

* I wouldn't mind seeing the ricasso grip animation used for thrusting with a two-handed (or even male without a father) sword. Also it would be nice to see a proper thrusting animation for blunt weapons (grab near the head with the off hand, and use the thrust to push the opponent back rather than cause any real damage)

[Peregrine]

However, who uses spears? Guards could, that's definitely realistic. But who else? The player. That's about it. Spears are somewhat unwieldly for practical combat, and have to be dropped for close combat anyway (well, not in morrowind, but from a realistic standpoint).

 

That's more than enough. The player alone is enough to make them worth including, and plenty of NPCs would be able to use them.

 

Also, if you add a new skill under strength, you'd have to either remove another, or add a new skill under each other category...

 

Why? This "even number of skills per attribute" idea is stupid and pointless. This isn't a multiplayer game, balance is irrelevant. This should NEVER be a reason for removing character options.

 

So there probably will be spears (or at least, it's a real possibility), just not a spear skill. Does this reduce realism? Perhaps, but it also allows your warrior to experiment with spears even though he's been using a long sword all his life. Or it allows you to use a spear throughout the game without gimping yourself in the end by having chosen a skill that doesn't have the best selection of weapons.

 

No, there WILL NOT BE SPEARS. Period. They have stated this officially. They will have to be added in by third-party plugins, involving a ton of effort. Or if adding new animations isn't possible, they won't exist at all. Yay for Bethesda dumbing down the game to appeal to the console-kid crowd instead of real rpg-ers.

 

Fortunately Neverwinter Nights II is coming out soon, so I'll get my detailed rpg anyway.

[Guest]

I want it to be heavily detailed, they had better not screw up the game by apppealing to a console crowd, that's never a good thing, lets be honest, games like the morrowind series could only ever be second rate on the x-box, so its not a good idea to orientate it to the x-box, lets not forget the harsh lesson we learned from the dissapointing travesty that was deus ex invisible war. dam those (very bad word) and there console orientated bs

[Dilvish]

Are you saying that Oblivion will be second rate on the Xbox 360 vs PCs? The new Xbox sure looks good in the store demos when paired with a HDTV. Many of us are worrying whether our current PCs will even run Oblivion.

[the_ragnarok702]

The only thing I don't really like about the previews of Oblivion is the fact that there are no new skill areas or birthsigns. They merely just cut some out or tweaked them to make them somewhat more fair. I was expecting all new birthsigns and perhaps for there to be an all new school of magic or a major addition to one of the schools. Things like this all contribute to the exploration a experimentation that you do in a game, a factor that makes games like this much more enjoyable.

[Switch]

The only thing I don't really like about the previews of Oblivion is the fact that there are no new skill areas or birthsigns. They merely just cut some out or tweaked them to make them somewhat more fair.

Actually, there is more to it than just rebalancing. The skills now have those discrete ranks (Apprentice, Journeyman, Expert, and Master, or something like that) at which point you gain special moves or abilities (such as a shield bash, or the ability to invest in a business with high Mercantile). That makes a significant impact on gameplay.

 

I was expecting all new birthsigns and perhaps for there to be an all new school of magic or a major addition to one of the schools.

There has been a major addition. Just read up on that latest dev. diary. Spells are going to be much more customisable and kinetic. Mods are probably going to come out with some crazy stuff with that new Script Effect thing. There's also at least one new spell effect I believe: being able to resurrect dead NPCs with Restoration.

 

Not trying to be a fanboi here, just pointing out the positive side. :P I was slightly disappointed by their reuse of the same birthsigns... a few additions would have been nice. But at least they changed the artwork and rebalanced them. The Lady was seriously ub3r before. And I still think putting axe in "Blunt" was a bit of an illogical step.

[Marxist ßastard]

There's also at least one new spell effect I believe: being able to resurrect dead NPCs with Restoration.

 

Primary main quest path: find dead emperor's lost heir

Secondary main quest path: resurrect dead emperor

 

Really, this seems like an awful way to go just to appease all the idiots on the official forum complaining about having killed an important charachter in Morrowind. So now all "essential" NPCs...

1. Are bright red
   
2. Cannot be killed -- just knocked down
   
3. Can be resurrected even if you somehow manage to kill them
   

[VaanicOne]

Are bright red

 

That's an over exaggeration, but I can see your point...almost. The red "tags" on essential NPC's will inevitably show you that they are a part of the main quest, and will kind of.....dilute the effect of the story...or something like that.