OverRide Arguement

[mechine]

It's only a experiment to make all the mods good parts be added to the final entry.

 

On the scale that it fixes an does this for the whole of the load order as far as conflicts that would otherwise be unfixable/unused

 

with the bonus of adding player made content to a mod with effects for said content types.

 

 

 

 

Naw I wouldn't advise trying to fix all the containers yourself,

 

which merge patch pretty much takes care of and even more, somewhat in a safe semi automated process.

 

 

When I ran the merge patch it just fixed about 25% of the bad stuff

 

 

OverRide isn't a new idea, just scaled up, it works with the merge patch in order to fix everything.

 

 

 

The only thing I really meant to call placebo or whatever

 

 

was FOIP an compatibility patches

 

 

 

From viewing them in FO3edit it just made things worse.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes an no.

 

 

New games are more stable if you end up changing anything, adding a mod, editing a mod, ect.

Might as well be a given at this point an for all future reference.

 

 

I ran the merge patch before even starting the OverRide, while also fixing the Merge patch before OverRides as well

then creating a back up of .esm an .esp before the start of fixing what merge patch did not, because it would almost

certianly create the "huge merge patch of doom" if merge patch was fully automated and fixed everything.

 

OverRides are tiny, small and seperated that way in order to avoid stepping on a land mine.

No one OverRide contains too much or uses too many mods as masters to add content to the table

in a final entry.

 

 

 

 

"Now, what's more likely? That a freshly restarted game is more stable, or that a merge of a ton of junk is somehow magically more stable than a loose collection of that very same junk?"

 

 

 

Hmmmm, No, it's not so much the case.

 

 

 

Before starting a new game, whiskey in Game would when you drink it, do more than one mods thing

 

 

 

Like Quench Primary needs thirst, get you drunk from inebriation, add a empty bottle from metal salvage, or even more

 

like having BLTC's overdose effect (I didn't build it into it though this time)

 

 

 

 

Besides fixing conflicts across the load order at the same time, it deals with picking an using the best content in the final entry

 

as well as the final entry being a collage of all the great parts of the mods in the load order into a non conflicting final entry

 

useable in game.

 

 

 

Another example would be MMM creatures that also share and use the Ghoulification scripts to make MMM ghouls be followers of the player

while also using other mods inside it as well if applicable, while not adding these mods as masters to MMM or any of the actual mods

OverRides are seperate from the mods, and avoids adding any mod as a master to another mod in order to do this.

 

 

 

Is a multiple entry list that is conflicting anymore stable than one that is not?

 

It's a mute point because the multiple entry list that isn't conflicting which you fixed is now ruled out as to a cause of a problem.

 

That being said it's only to a certian extent, because we don't view the big picture of data like the computer does.

 

 

 

You could probably argue about redundant data, but the engine is just going to use the last entry in the list

 

while also each of those redundant entries may have many references (like they placed it in the game world) inside the

 

actual mod when it loads, while removing it would either null that reference or fall back onto the entry built into

 

either the Fallout3.esm or the mod before it which has the entry, but who's to say that it works that way.

 

For one I know that GECK warns you about this, which is why I put my money on that durring the load up process for

 

the mod in question that it should have the entry inside the mod for the references to work.

 

Came up with this from running into problems when I took the easy way out, by removing/deleting entries inside a multiple entry list

 

as a solve for a conflict, which sometimes would cause a mass of conflicts across the load order

 

 

1. You get conflicts fixed without removing anything from any mod, besides sub-entries into a multiple entry list which is later in the final entry

anyway, thanks to the OverRide that does have mods added as masters, but the OverRide content is tiny, so adding the mods as masters

won't replace anything like it would if you has say, added one mod as a master to another mod later in the list, when you did that

all the stuff in the mod that you added as a master to the other mod, just overwrote an messed up the mod you added the master to

which doesn't always happen, but when it does it's a land mine causing mass conflicts across the load order.

 

2.Since when is going thru your multiple entry conflicts in FO3edit a bad idea? You're doing it anyway, why not Create OverRides

when something pops up that the normal methods won't fix, I would say maybe 10% of the stuff needs a override in order to fix.

I even found a broken mod in the list, so just going thru the load order with FO3edit is a must.

 

 

3. Durring the process you get the "final say" as to what and how things will work inside the game world rather than someone elses ideas

on how fallout should work on your computer.

 

 

4.Then later after the process the Overrides serve to provide content, I.E. adding every player made food type like in MRE, FDA, fallout food

or more to the RI_primary needs table for the scripts an effects for hunger

[gsmanners]

You know, I agree with you for the most part, but you're not going to win converts unless you can really condense this into say a few paragraphs.

[mechine]

Pfft I don't really care about that.

 

 

 

Geez the tutorial for FO3edit is almost the size of a overhawl mod.

 

 

It's like 120 pages in microsoft word.

 

 

ha ha ha

 

 

 

Geez did you see the size of FOOK2, and it's a auto installer, zomg I'm scared of it.

 

 

 

Also did you hear about them forgeting to put mipmaps in the textures for FOOK2

 

 

Awe that's so classic modders. We always make some tiny silly mistake.

 

 

 

 

 

Back to the override thing, it's writen in noob for noobs like meh.

 

 

It doesn't really even talk about how to fix things with FO3edit

 

 

There's probalby 6-12 different tricks to fix stuff, because of the different types of data in the list.

 

 

 

 

OverRide? I don't even know what it is anymore. I know it works...

 

 

I know I've seen it before, not so much like this though.

 

 

I have to admit it's kind of off the wall.

 

 

I can live with off the wall, so long as it allows to fix anything.

 

 

 

 

lolz I ran into one of your mods, an was like zomg it's GSmanners

 

 

I downloaded it anyway though. :D

[BooneoftheWasteland]

You should create some sort of mini walkthrough example. Like say for how you combined FDA FALLOUTFOODS, etc into Primary Needs. Along with pics. I for one, would be a follower of your work. I also have another detailed response in your other thread in which I will post later.

In fact if you create that document, you should upload it as a "mod" but the download is not for an esp but for your document. It's been done before for other things but I forget, if I remember I'll post the link to that mod.

[BooneoftheWasteland]

http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=4325

 

Ultimate load order is an example of a mod d/l which isn't a mod but a document.

[mechine]

lolz yeah

 

 

I actually went thru the Ultimate load order first of the year.

 

 

That's kind of where I started learning stuff.

 

 

 

hahahah isn't that guy funny though, hillarious and painful guide to fallout...

 

 

 

I hoped maybe they would pick it back up an do a post 1.7 Ultimate Load Order.

 

 

 

 

As far as the OverRide process...

 

 

 

 

I can't say that a Guide to OverRideV3 isn't in the future.

 

 

 

There's been OverRides for a while now, but I don't think ever on this large scale.

 

 

 

That first draft was just when I learned how to do it, and got a working version putting it in the test phase.

 

 

 

I ran a test game for a week or so with no problems, in fact it ran more smooth than I thought it would

 

having multiple scripts an effects running at the same time (didn't even notice)

 

 

But I ran into a random crash, which could have just been fallout 3's fault or my system.

 

 

So in order to rule that out, I wiped the hard drives, made clean installs of everything

 

Then trolled the downloads for 5Gb or more of mods (thus moving into the UFP 1.2 an FOOK 2 era)

 

Also getting the DLC's to further the advancement of the process.

 

 

 

 

This in order to have known good clean install, as well as learn more stuff.

 

Last thing I learned was from UFP 1.2 which is that the system cache can go corupt sometimes randomly

 

which explains why I promote rebooting your system every so often, (which is the fix for a corupt cache)

 

 

 

 

Idk, I know a lot of stuff, but I'm trying to focus on filtering out the psychosis of data from actual facts.

 

Right now I have the basic install of the mods in place, and now All I have to do is install the weapon an armor mods.

 

 

Yay it's not as large of a load order as I though, but then what it left is all tiny weapon mods which there are a lot

just like the armor stuff, it's all broken down into small mods, and I'm not sure if it can be compiled together in a safe way.

 

 

Idk

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fallout3.esm

Anchorage.esm

ThePitt.esm

PointLookout.esm

BrokenSteel.esm

Zeta.esm

CALIBR.esm

COMM.esm

FOOK2 - Main.esm

FOOK2 - [*censored*] World And Neighbourhood Kit.esm

FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esm

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm

Mart's Mutant Mod.esm

MMZombieCemetery.esm

Sharing and Caring Companions.esm

CRAFT.esm

StreetLights.esm

RI_Core.esm

Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow.esm

dD-More Gore.esp

dD-More Gore-Zeta.esp

dD-More Gore-The Pitt.esp

dD-More Gore-PointLookout.esp

dD-More Gore-BrokenSteel.esp

Forge.esp

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp

MoreMapMarkers.esp

FOOK2 - Main.esp

FOOK2 - *censored* Map Markers.esp

FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esp

FOOK2 - Mothership Zeta.esp

FOOK2 - [EVE] Energy Visuals Enhanced.esp

CALIBRxMerchant.esp

CRAFT - Activation Perk.esp

Stealthboy Recon Armor - CRAFT.esp

CALIBR Ammo Schematics - CRAFT.esp

DK_BulletTime.esp

Precision_AutoAim_6000.esp

VATS - MCE.esp

VatsLongerDistance.esp

KaBOOM.esp

LessBouncyGrenades.esp

Graphical Nuke Mod.esp

ExtreemeLongDeathCamera.esp

krzymar-MoonSize_500%.esp

SunGlassesFX.esp

IREye.esp

NPC Height Randomizer.esp

Milk Carton.esp

ShellRain.esp

Range Finder v1.0.esp

dD-Less Blood Time.esp

FallDamage101.esp

FireLightFix.esp

No Blur Effect.esp

QuickFix.esp

F3UmpaAnimation.esp

The Groovatron.esp

VanishingPiles.esp

GeneratorSound.esp

No Autosave.esp

Higher Vehicle Health.esp

SCC - Talk to Anyone.esp

Moira.esp

Jinxxed SCC-Nora.esp

Jinxxed SCC-Xora.esp

real deputy weld V0.2.esp

BraveDogmeat.esp

royphilipsveryevilwmask.esp

Lucious Lucy.esp

Sammy The Singing Robot.esp

Borkowskifollow.esp

BetterButler.esp

Nukapal.esp

SharonDelaney.esp

LucyWestCompanion.esp

MisterBurkeCompanion.esp

CaravanUpgrades.esp

Rivet_city_security.esp

Death's Head Legion.esp

d0ct0r li glasses.esp

Jinxxed SCC-Jora.esp

fessentialdeathtime60.esp

NPCs Sleep Tighter.esp

collectionagent_improved.esp

Cliff's_Sellable_Body_Parts.esp

T_R_A_S_C_H.esp

mika.esp

Team Fallout.esp

Not alone in the Wasteland anymore.esp

RecieveTenpennySuite.esp

CapsDoubled.esp

Megaton Tweaks 1.28.esp

Megaton Closes.esp

TL_Color.esp

DriveableMotorCycle.esp

GPs Oasis - Clean Water 1.1.esp

OasisStorage.esp

HouseholdWaterPurifier.esp

QuantumPipeV2.esp

Water_Tower_Hideout_byOrophin.esp

Buiss_Hideout_Armory.esp

BeefedUpCitadel.esp

bunkerhome.esp

SecretOfParadise.esp

Potw V0.6.esp

DCInteriors_Georgtown.esp

DCInteriors_SewardSq.esp

DCInteriors_Mason.esp

Fallin3 South East Wasteland.esp

rockville.esp

ArefuHelp.esp

RivetCity Rich Room.esp

tubRRCompound.esp

Regulator Mode.esp

Silo 3.esp

hundredfists.esp

Tough Girl.esp

UPP - Pack 1.esp

UPP - Pack 2.esp

DotW v1.00.esp

Explosive Entry.esp

LightweightFoodSanitizer.esp

ExplodingRadios.esp

Portable Sniper Nest.esp

SCC Armor.esp

WieldableTorches.esp

GNR Fix.esp

We Jazz.esp

mazas_campfire.esp

Portable Water Purifier.esp

FullAutoPistolsV20test.esp

RI_Base3.esp

RI_PNeeds2S.esp

RI_FOSE.esp

RI_Alcohol.esp

RI_DoctorCost.esp

RI_CrippledEffects.esp

RI_PNAnchorage.esp

Metal Salvage.esp

FalloutFood.esp

MRE.esp

Bottle That Water.esp

BetterDrugs.esp

HAZdrugs.esp

Inebriation-FOSE.esp

UsableCigarettes.esp

NailedToDeath.esp

old Olney wird lebendig.esp

Ultra Olney.esp

ghoulification.esp

Fellout-Full.esp

Fellout-Anchorage.esp

Fellout-BrokenSteel.esp

Fellout-pipboylight.esp

Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow in Fallout.esp

Enhanced Weather - Radioactive Rain and Snow Plugin.esp

Enhanced Weather - Weather Sounds in Interiors.esp

Enhanced Weather - Sneak Bonus during Storms.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - Increased Increased Spawns.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - Feral Ghoul Rampage.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - No Geckos.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - No Wanamingos.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - No Floaters.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - Zombie Cementery.esp

 

Total active plugins: 178

Total plugins: 178

[gsmanners]

Isn't "Milk Carton" redundant when you have UF3P? Actually, I found "Milk Carton" to be a rather odd way to solve a problem that I think was fixed in the official 1.4 patch.

[BooneoftheWasteland]

Hey mechine, you still working on this?

 

So for me at the moment my game runs well with just the merged patch. Some hiccups there but nothing in the red.

However I would like to override something like Simple Needs, for Hunger/Thirst/Sleep in combination with FalloutFoods, FDA, Inebriation the 3 which I already have etc and work it out like you did for your patch. My question, does that really need a new game start? It seems rather trivial.

Though the bigger of my thoughts are combining companion mods, for example CBO (companion overhaul), Phalanx mod and maybe even remote control companions mod. That seems daunting, but to extract certain little bits out of that would perfect what I am looking for.

 

Have you been able to make overrides, unstable crashes, and then just copy and paste back the back-up data folder esm and esp without hitches and resume back to normal?

 

My 2 things really are uniting Needs like you have and then tweaking companion mods. I don't use the big overhauls like FOOK.

[mechine]

I don't know, I just downloaded everything I could get my hands on. Milkcarton sounded cool I guess.

 

The main problem I ran into is the 80 small mods that just add a gun or a armor.

 

 

After some play time, I start over, an download an install all the small ones first.

 

Combine all that somehow, then install the large stuff. Yeah, it was getting around the 250 mark.

 

So I just turned on a few of them an started playing.

 

 

 

I don't think you have to start a new game, but I just thought it would be less risk.

 

 

Truth is yall are kind of right, though, so long as the load order doesn't change or the form ID's then yeah

 

it should be fine, idk.

 

 

 

 

I know that what I ran into with Primary needs, I ended up with a OverRideV2Food.esp

 

which I created because some of the food in primary needs got overwriten by something else

 

so those entries got copied into a override, the entries from primary needs.

 

 

 

Then it would just need the effects an conditions fixed in the privious entries for effects an conditons.

 

 

So like you have the complex ones, like whiskey, with many effects an conditions spread across a few mods

 

 

Which I'd pick the best ones, then add effects on the "effects" line in the OverRide entry for however many I wanted to use

 

then move them up to the OverRide entry at the far right one at a time, until the last entry (Override) had all the effects an conditions

 

I wanted, at which point I pretty much remove the effects in the other mods (but just the effects an conditons part of the entries)

 

 

 

 

So you have this other food which is more simple than whiskey, so really you just copy it as an override into the OverRideFood.esp

 

Then you would have to manually add the effects in, which would be a little harder because you couldn't drag an drop it

 

But they're not super complex you could write it down, an copy an paste it mostly.

 

 

 

I for one, when I get to a part that I'm not sure about if and how I can fix it, inside FO3edit, that's the point I save it

 

so before I try I have a clean save of .esp's that If I mess up I can just reload and try again,

 

but you know, you wana keep a backup copy of all your .esp's before you changed them or even some after you changed them.

 

I only say that because you kind of have to mess something up to start learning how to use FO3edit better.

 

 

 

I didn't have problems with the OverRides.

 

 

The main reason I was using OverRides was to fix conflicts that couldn't be fixed by the normal methods.

 

 

But it opened up a whole bunch of things, which is kind of cool.

 

 

 

I only got as far as the first draft. http://thenexusforums.com/index.php?showtopic=149252

 

 

Then I realized that I needed to wipe my harddrives, get a cleaner install of windows (to fix my internet explorer)

 

I got a better install of everything, and then started testing fallout 3 with 1.7 and no mods.

 

Which I fixed a few things, as far as sounds quality an stuttering, durring my vanilla tests in game (running around crazy)

 

 

Then added all the DLC's to test with them (also moving into having DLC's, which opens compatibilty for my mods with DLC's, and more)

 

 

The plan was to update, getting the DLC's an also the FOOK2 stuff, or well a trial of OverRide using the newer mods.

 

but some of it is because FullAutoPistols needs a update an needs to work with this stuff, and also be cleaned up a bit.

 

 

So yeah I'm still working on it, but right now I'm just playing pretty much with a few mods running, to have a bit of fun.

 

 

 

I did get a much better running game as far as stutter goes, which all I did is install fallout an then patched it to 1.7

 

an then read the tweek guide, an did a bunch of testing in game without any mods installed yet.

 

 

I need to get a known good install an testing done, which is the control group, so that later on I can really test the OverRide.

[BooneoftheWasteland]

Hey mechine. What I think you should do, well you don't need to do anything the choice is yours lol, but most people don't have the time for a complete overhaul of fixes like you've done for yourself. I'd like to but it depends on any issues with my current load order, mods, and most important the balance of time and playing. Most people just want a simple fix and play. Perhaps you should start thinking of 'patch work' overrides will be stable for gameplay, instead of strictly entire 'overhaul' overrides.

 

I think you should put together a simple step by step process, with screen shots, as a demo, for example the whiskey example you bring up often. So step by step on how to override patch Primary Needs with Inebreiation, with something else to unify all options for whiskey. A sceenshot of what we initially see, and then a screenshot of final product after step by step walkthrough.

I plan to unite a Needs mod with all foods, like FDA and Falloutfoods with what you've done but it's sketchy at the moment as I have to gather everything you've written in 3/4 different threads. A demo of that in one thread or 'mod' would be awesome.

 

I think you should demo a very simple override patch mod and put in a disclaimer of 'use at own risk'.