OMG like, I can't find this mod

[Tony the Wookie]

How interesting. I felt exactly the same way about Bush/Cheney supporters. Only the very rich ones seemed to know what they were doing. The rest are now blaming Obama for the bed that they made.

 

Though I agree with what you are saying, I don't think bringing up politics on a forum about anything other that politics, leads to anything but a whole lot of trouble :closedeyes:

 

especially when it is not discussion about policy, but just straight foward attacks on those that see things from a different side than you

 

that is why I chose not to respond to the first post that mentioned politics, I was hopeing it would just go away

[Nuebus]

People blaming Bush, Obama and all the other Presidents are just assholes tbh. If you looked at the presidents in an impartial pov; they're really not that bad. They're just very, very average. Ever since Roosevelt's death, the Presidents that you get are either very successful or incredible failures; all because they had crisis after crisis to deal with. These events would be what would either "make or break" them as presidents going down in history. Truman was a hardliner who was revered for recognizing the Soviet threat and taking a stance against it, learning form Chamberlain's abject failure that was the Policy of Appeasement. Eisenhower after him had been the commanding general of the Allied forces during WW2 ensuring his popularity, but also his success in following the Truman Doctrine in the Korean War, leading to the capitalist South Korea, and communist North Korea we have even today. Kennedy followed as a young president, following the hopes and dreams in America. An idealist he was instantly liked by the public his (perceived) success against Khruschev in the Cuban Missile Crisis emphasized this; and because of this, his subsequent assassination ensured he would be remembered fondly as a champion of America, a martyr. Following these presidents were many more, Nixon was remembered for relieving the tension between the USA and the USSR; which had recently followed the puppet war between the capitalist South Vietnam and communist North Vietnam was a much needed venture. Sadly the Watergate Scandal would mark Nixon's record forever; but he would still remain as one of the greatest presidents during the Cold War.

 

Carter in comparison sorted out the USA's internal problems; with rising inflation and resource costs; causing the regaining of over 8 million jobs to the unemployed. He would be remembered for fixing the USA before it needed to be fixed. Reagan following Carter had successfully negotiated with the USSR to pull back ICBMs of medium range, and he would be remembered for contributing to easing the tension of the Cold War. Clinton after Bush Snr; would be remembered for his battle against terrorists following the 9/11 bombing.

 

You'll notice I had cut out Johnson, Ford and Bush Snr, because while all those other Presidents are well remembered; and their legacy solidified; these guys, not so much. Johnson would be remembered for REVERSING the late Kennedy's attempts to pull out of Vietnam and ultimately leading to the disastrous Vietnam War. Ford wouldn't really be remembered for anything, as he spent all his time repairing the damage that the Watergate scandal, had caused. Bush similarly would spend the majority of his time repairing the USA's rising inflations as well as the poverty; even his success in Kuwait wouldn't be enough to allow for his reelection.

 

Essentially; if you paid attention, all the well known and remembered presidents had to deal with crisis after crisis that inadvertently would elad back to the Cold War. Bush and Obama don't have that commodity, as Bush could only ever continue the ball that Clinton started in the Middle East while also dealing with America's economic problem. Obama in comparison doesn't even have an enemy to take some of the scrutiny off him; faced with the overwhelming economic crisis in America. Like Ford; he'd be spending all his time repairing the inflation that is occuring, and not for any other significant event. All the past Presidents were faced with a crisis that either made or broke them as successful candidates, recently there have been a shortage of events significant enough for a president's intervention, leading to the undoubtly average legacy as presidents. I can't imagine the hardliner Truman or even Eisenhower doing better then Obama is now; as America's enemy is only herself at this point, and that is what Obama is faced with.

 

EDIT: Yeah. I got a lot of time on my hands. What about it?

[Tony the Wookie]

this is exactly what I wanted to avoid... :confused:

 

political discussion on a Fallout Modding site is a little out of place

 

and really, starting off a discussion calling people "assholes" really doesn't make people want to take anything else you say seriously

 

 

 

I am not going to comment about any peoples political views in any way, I am just saying that this is not the right place to discuss such things

[Phoynix]

I disagree.

 

People in the USA are well people, they happen to in general be educated, nice, thoughtful.

 

Problem is

Put them infront of a speach from a member of there govement.

There eyes glaze over, get a goofy smile on there faces and lose 100 points off there iq.

 

 

Case and point example is.

Obama unwilling to press charges, telling the US people they must look to the future, talking about the fact Members of US congress(including the last president, members of intelligence agentcies and military personal) Conducted knew about, authorised, or covered up acts of torture, and in some cases that torture even included murder. That many of those tortured happend to be kidnaped off Iraq streets, in one case a Iraqi soldier who had already passed all the intelligence checks to work in the green zone in baghdad got kidnaped because he looked like a terrorist and then murderd by US personal.

 

If anyone actually did look towards the future they would see.

 

The people who conducted these acts,

These people.. will no longer be on the lower rungs of the govement, but in the upper reaches.

 

That the friends and families of the people murdered have

 

Reasonable cause to hit Cilvian targets on us soil(under international law citizins of a democratic govement are required to ensure there govement does not violate human rights laws and if they do ensure they are punished)

Emotional Drive, having a family member or close friend tortured by someone, and then seeing that someone protected, rather then prosecuted.

 

End result.

Less secure USA where more attacks will be targeted agasint the Cilvian population.

A USA where the people in charge beleive any action even breaking the law, even murder, is justified to reach a goal even if that goal is nothing more then brutality.

 

Yet

Very few americans.. when told to look to the future, would have actually LOOKED, at what president obama was suggesting.

 

Now What happens

If those responsible for the crimes agasint humanity and warcrimes in the US govement, were tried and handed over to other countries for trial.

 

2 Major future threats to the US people will be greatly reduced, many would be terrorists who's only goal was to avenge a loved one would be happy with justice, if it was real justice, and Cilvian lives would be saved.

The clearing of the govement from amoral people whould help safeguard the rights freedoms and perhaps even lives of the US people.

 

Currently the US govement is using the US people as a humanshield to protect itself from retaliation for acts that should not have been done by anyone to anyone.

IT will then use the retaliation as reason to up the ante to an even higherstate... and in a day and age where thousands of kilos of Weaponsgrade plutonium is missing and in the hands of many groups.. its going to have one and only one ending.

 

Infact I wouldnt be surprised if it happens soon.

Apparently US forces killed Osama Bin ladens son.

Osama Bin Laden is known to have access to 27 20kiloton nukes, and a underground testing ground in afganastan shows that they have worked out how to bypass the Russian detonation mechinisims.

 

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword.

 

Which is a rather large problem for me, as an australain previously we were not on a hitlist, now with just 6 of the 20kiloton nukes over half my countries population could be wiped out if they are deployed properly.

[JimboUK]

Shouldn't this thread be elsewhere?

[buddah]

>LOCKED< This had drifted into a political debate and will end badly, so it is ended before other action is necessary.