Legion NV

[sgtKraigO]

Here's an interesting quote from the White Legs wiki page.

 

"Though the White Legs want to be assimilated by Caesar's Legion, many of White Leg warriors are women. This indicates that they don't know what they're signing up for, similar to the Great Khans. Caesar was also known to betray his allies: the Twisted Hairs formed an alliance with Caesar to serve as his army's scouts in Arizona. Once the Arizona wastes were pacified, the Legion stripped their tribal identity and forced them into slavery. Those who resisted were crucified along the remains of I-40."

 

I'd assume those who know the terrain or can get into other tribal camps easily. The Twisted Hairs knew the terrain so Caesar used them as scouts.

 

 

 

I'm have to admit that I'm curious about what makes a tribe useful or expendable to the Legion. In my post about Honest Hearts sometime ago I predicated that even if the White Legs had killed the New Caanites then the Legion would have turned against them anyway. The males would be killed and the women kept alive only to make babies for the Legion. I assume that tribes like the White Legs that have forgotten how to speak in English and developed their own dialect would be considered useless to the Legion. Tribes like the Twisted Hairs may be considered as a more developed type of tribe if Ulysess's ability to hack into Eyebots and operate pre war military bases in Lonesome Road is any indication. I doubt that he learned those types of skills in the Legion. These tribes who can still speak proper English and operate pre war technology would be considered more useful to the Legion and assimilated into it's army.

 

I was under the imperssion he had some knowledge of pre-war tech but learned most of it during his stay at the Divide.

[devinpatterson]

One thing I just remembered is mentioning that the mines around the Mojave could be occupied by workers from the NCR and a few soldiers (for protection) in order to give the feeling that they're still operational and the resources are being extracted. This could work with the Legion as well, except with slaves and a few soldiers (For protection and to ensure the slaves are working).

good idea :)

 

P.S. you should make an NCR thread as I have a lot of ideas for them XP

 

It's right over here.

[devinpatterson]

The Remnants

 

The Legion endings for them show another example of the difference between Caesar and Lanius. Cautious of their power Caesar will order the Legion not to pursue the Remnants. Lanius on the other hand will order the Legion to chase the Remnants into Arizona. This results in the deaths of hundreds of legionaries with Lanius gaining nothing in return. This could be another example that forces the Legion to conspire against Lanius.

Weirdness, there are only six of them (? never did the remnants quest), wonder how the legion took such a heavy hit.

 

 

 

 

Here's an interesting quote from the White Legs wiki page.

 

"Though the White Legs want to be assimilated by Caesar's Legion, many of White Leg warriors are women. This indicates that they don't know what they're signing up for, similar to the Great Khans. Caesar was also known to betray his allies: the Twisted Hairs formed an alliance with Caesar to serve as his army's scouts in Arizona. Once the Arizona wastes were pacified, the Legion stripped their tribal identity and forced them into slavery. Those who resisted were crucified along the remains of I-40."

Yeah I'm sure it's teh same as the great khans, simply lies. I don't know if Caesar is completely without honor when it comes to convenience or there is a mindset that tribals simply don't qualify as any type of equal and so can be treated however he wishes (promises broken) without a loss of honor in the Legions eyes.

 

I'm have to admit that I'm curious about what makes a tribe useful or expendable to the Legion. In my post about Honest Hearts sometime ago I predicated that even if the White Legs had killed the New Caanites then the Legion would have turned against them anyway. The males would be killed and the women kept alive only to make babies for the Legion.

I think you have it in a nutshell. As long as they are a benefit to Caesar (whether that utility is as an ally, scouts, what have you) they may keep their identity, but it's essentially at Caesars whim :sad:

[Danny159]

Fiends

 

If Three Card Bounty was completed then the Fiends will scatter throughout the wastelands and without a leader figure to organise them they become easy prey. If some or all Fiend leaders are alive then they will attack Camp McCarran in the final battle. I don't know if they manage to capture McCarren or not but the ending states that Caesar was unimpressed by their performance and drug use and orders their extermination. I can't imagine Lanius sparing them either.

Just want to mention the Fiends have 4 leaders, Motorrunner is not part of the 3 card bounty. ;)

But is the most organized of them all... ^^

[Devilman1975]

 

Before I start putting out my research for the Legion endings. I think that we need two versions of a Legion mod where Caesar is alive and remains leader and the other where Lanius becomes the New Caesar.

Well I think we have to keep in mind the very real possibility that both may be dead at some point. It's not critical for this ending in the begining, but the lore and decisions we make regarding teh legion are also reflected immediately in the NCR (and possibly House/Ind to a lesser degree) ending (where we can assume that in many NCR faction games, both may have perished by the couriers hand). It's unlikely to be the case in the Legion mod initially, but because all mods have the potential to move into the same state as the Independent, we have to consider the possibility of Caeser and Lanius being killed, by the courier, to usurp the throne.

 

I believe that a replacement Caesar and Legate should be created for the House, NCR and Independent versions of the mod if Caesar and Lanius are already dead. These characters can also be used in the Lanius Legion version of the mod where they can either support the player's coup d'etat or/and challenge the player's ambition to become the next Caesar. I'm not sure if the Legion would select the next badass in line to become Caesar or select someone who was born into the Legion. Considering that Legion was founded in 2247 this would place in the character somewhere between his late 20's or early 30's. The Legion may also try to avoid making another tribal badass become the next Caesar as I'm sure that most of the Legion don't want to suffer under another Lanius.

 

If Caesar and Lanius are dead in the House, NCR and Independent versions then this should give the player and supported faction some breathing room as the Legion are trying to find their next Caesar.

 

Found a behind the scenes note on the Legion's wiki page I think is worth putting up for research and ideas.

 

" Breeding issues are pretty huge in cultures that took a big step back from infant mortality progress made in the last 100-200 years. Prior to the last few centuries, infant mortality was often around 50%-ish. Child mortality (prior to age 12) was about 60%. Those are pretty awful odds of reaching adulthood.

Remember that Caesar's Legion is basically a roving army that continually breaks down and absorbs tribes that it conquers. That can only go on for so long, and Legionaries who are indoctrinated from birth are even more loyal than adolescents who are integrated. Breeding new generations of Legionaries is vital for the Legion's continued existence.

Even though breeding is incredibly important in the Legion, there isn't any concept of family outside of the Legion's structure. All of the places where the player encounters the Legion are forward camps where direct military service is given the most weight and is of the most immediate importance. Because only males are involved in that service, they look down upon females even though it's incredibly short-sighted.

The additional Legion locations would have had more traveling non-Legion residents of Legion territories. The Fort and Cottonwood Cove made sense as heavy military outposts where the vast majority of the population consisted of soldiers and slaves. The other locations would have had more "civilians". It's not accurate to think of them as citizens of the Legion (the Legion is purely military), but as non-tribal people who live in areas under Legion control.

While Caesar intentionally enslaves NCR and Mojave residents in the war zone, most of the enslavement that happens in the east happens to tribals. As Raul indicates, there are non-tribal communities that came under Legion control a long time ago. The additional locations would have shown what life is like for those people.

The general tone would have been what you would expect from life under a stable military dictatorship facing no internal resistance: the majority of people enjoy safe and productive lives (more than they had prior to the Legion's arrival) but have no freedoms, rights, or say in what happens in their communities. Water and power flow consistently, food is adequate, travel is safe, and occasionally someone steps afoul of a legionary and gets his or her head cut off. If the Legion tells someone to do something, they only ask once -- even if that means an entire community has to pick up and move fifty miles away. Corruption within the Legion is rare and Caesar deals with it harshly (even by Legion standards).

In short, residents of Legion territories aren't really citizens and they aren't slaves, but they're also not free. People who keep their mouths shut, go about their business, and nod at the rare requests the Legion makes of them -- they can live very well. Many of them don't care at all that they don't have a say in what happens around them (mostly because they felt they never had a say in it before the Legion came, anyway)."

[sgtKraigO]

 

 

Before I start putting out my research for the Legion endings. I think that we need two versions of a Legion mod where Caesar is alive and remains leader and the other where Lanius becomes the New Caesar.

Well I think we have to keep in mind the very real possibility that both may be dead at some point. It's not critical for this ending in the begining, but the lore and decisions we make regarding teh legion are also reflected immediately in the NCR (and possibly House/Ind to a lesser degree) ending (where we can assume that in many NCR faction games, both may have perished by the couriers hand). It's unlikely to be the case in the Legion mod initially, but because all mods have the potential to move into the same state as the Independent, we have to consider the possibility of Caeser and Lanius being killed, by the courier, to usurp the throne.

 

I believe that a replacement Caesar and Legate should be created for the House, NCR and Independent versions of the mod if Caesar and Lanius are already dead. These characters can also be used in the Lanius Legion version of the mod where they can either support the player's coup d'etat or/and challenge the player's ambition to become the next Caesar. I'm not sure if the Legion would select the next badass in line to become Caesar or select someone who was born into the Legion. Considering that Legion was founded in 2247 this would place in the character somewhere between his late 20's or early 30's. The Legion may also try to avoid making another tribal badass become the next Caesar as I'm sure that most of the Legion don't want to suffer under another Lanius.

 

If Caesar and Lanius are dead in the House, NCR and Independent versions then this should give the player and supported faction some breathing room as the Legion are trying to find their next Caesar.

 

When I do an NCR loving courier I kill every named Legion NPC I can find and I try too kill every centurion I find. So I think the next Caesar should be one was out east when old Caesar and Lanius died. It could also be believed he assassinated a few of the legion members who were above him so we don't know how far down the list he was since there were a lot of high ranking members in the fort/mojave. I would also like to see him use frumentarii more than old Caesar and have them go too the mojave to hinder the NCR/House/ Ind operations so he can then possibly take it. This would allow for an antagonist and allow the legion to still be some threat to the Mojave, all be it a fraction of what it use to be.

Edited March 23, 2014 by sgtKraigO

[devinpatterson]

I would also like to see him use frumentarii more than old Caesar and have them go too the mojave to hinder the NCR/House/ Ind operations so he can then possibly take it. This would allow for an antagonist and allow the legion to still be some threat to the Mojave, all be it a fraction of what it use to be.

Absolutely and guerrilla tactics paired with terrorist tactics by the frumentarii can be very effective. It also makes for much more in depth quests for the courier than simply killing rank and file legionaries.

[Devilman1975]

Hey Devin. How you doing?

 

I just added a small update to my post (first page of this thread) on the endings for Legion playthroughs in regards to the Van Graffs, Crimson Caravans and Gun Runners.

 

In addition to that I wanted to mention an idea I had for the player to become the new Caesar of the Legion. I'm probably not the only person who felt more like a henchman when working for the Legion. When I play as evil characters I normally want to end up in a high position of power and I don't think that working for the Legion satisfies that need. Players who want to become the next Caesar (will certainly be interesting for female player characters) can kill Caesar during his brain surgery in the main game, gain rank in the Legion and work with the Frumentari and other Legion members to overthrow Lanius.

 

An ace up the hole for the player if he/she needed it would be to upgrade the securitrons, lie to Caesar about the bunker's destruction and have Yes Man installed in the Lucky 38's mainframe later on. I can imagine that Legion Securitrons would look good painted red.

[devinpatterson]

Hey brother, I'm doing a bit of research on the vault wiki re: the points in your post, and hope to get a reply out soon.

[devinpatterson]

Hey Devin. How you doing?

Crazy busy, but hoping to get back into the modding soon

 

In addition to that I wanted to mention an idea I had for the player to become the new Caesar of the Legion. I'm probably not the only person who felt more like a henchman when working for the Legion. When I play as evil characters I normally want to end up in a high position of power and I don't think that working for the Legion satisfies that need. Players who want to become the next Caesar

I think it's fairly reasonable to for a path to ascension if Lanius is dead. Ulysses believes the legion will tear itself apart if that happens and it's during these periods of instability that fortune favors the brave (and opportunity presents itself). I'm sure there are other existing power structures, but it's not as formalized as say the senate and presidency of the NCR (which would be more challenging to co-opt).

 

(will certainly be interesting for female player characters)

 

An ace up the hole for the player if he/she needed it would be to upgrade the securitrons, lie to Caesar about the bunker's destruction and have Yes Man installed in the Lucky 38's mainframe later on. I can imagine that Legion Securitrons would look good painted red.

I think both the bots and the sex of the player will hing on an essential question regarding the fundamental nature of hte Legion. Is it a cult of personality primarily centered on Caesar or has it already evolved into a bona fide culture whose ethos far surpasses any single leader (think Sparta and it's military social system). If it's the former I think things in the Legion can change much, much faster than the latter. But if it's the latter, the prohibition re: females and bots isn't something the player can alter without massive resistance, and probably changing the core nature of the Legion.

 

I had hoped to find more info on the bots (and and possibly female roles), but it's pretty limited to the following;

"The only mentioned opposition to military technology is combat robots. Caesar dislikes the thought of having robots win a war fought by men. Because of this he tells the Courier to destroy Mr. House's Securitron army, even if the Courier offers to use the technology to destroy the NCR." vault wiki. This does make sense in regard to the military ethos of the Legion.

 

"Women are given the role of, essentially, support corps. Caesar specifically forbids women from fighting, instead using them as caretakers, healers, midwives, and breeders to support the Legion's continuous campaign of expansion. Almost all members of the Legion express condescending and downright misogynistic opinions of women and their non-combat roles. While the portrayal of female slaves in Fallout: New Vegas follows standard stereotypes, it is important to reiterate that both females and males in the Legion are fully subjugated by Caesar - though women have the distinction of being considered 'sub-human' instead of merely slaves, due to the Legion's perception of their gender." vault wiki

 

Kind of off topic, but there was going to be a female opposition to the Legion called the daughters of hectate, in Van buren.