Lets allow genetic engineering for humans

[desperado2008]

*off topic*

 

I'd be careful, holmes. Hammonds can smash you into little desperado meatballs. The staff here has enough grief. Just some friendly advice.

 

*back on topic*

 

*off topic*

she won't, she treat me nice.

they just want to isolate me.

 

*back on topic*

[Trandoshan]

Since when hemophilia could be cured by medicine? I wonder.

As far as I know, if a patient of hemophilia get internal or external bleeding, the only way to save his life is tranfusing blood constantly.

the fate of human is(shall never) not for scientists to decide. Enrico Fermi invented atomic bomb but it's Trumen who decided to use it.

 

Exactly, my intelligent friend. The queen is alive, lo and behold. Thank medical technology (BLOOD TRANSFUSION). A.D.D. can be cured with Vyvanse, Ritalin, or other speed-like substances. Bi-Polar Disorder can be tempered with Lithium, or other medicines.

 

Of course, I used the term 'Cure' loosely. What I meant was maintain the state of quality, or normal life.

 

As for your seconds statement. Yes, I understand this completely...

 

I said this in an earlier post

 

"As noted by my last post as well, the reason why diseases like Bi-Polar disorder and A.D.D. will probably never be cured genetically is because those diseases are prime targets for pharmaceutical companies. Since they are the top of the crop when it comes to power (Industrialization and the such, my friend), they will never let genetic engineering slide. Money is power, and they have quite a bit. These Free-Lance Scientists have ideas on Genetic Engineering, but no one to support or back their findings with money (A.K.A. Power)."

 

since I have posted the same thing at least three times now, let me clarify what I meant.

 

Money = Power

Pharmaceutical Companies = Big Money Industry

Scientist=No Money

Breakthrough in Genetic Engineering to treat Bi-Polar Disorder = Money loss for Pharmaceutical companies

Scientist + Breakthrough in Genetic Engineering / Companies who want money = NO BREAKTHROUGH IN SCIENCE.

 

We have the ability to discover the cures to every disease. Interestingly enough, I have an article for you to read and debate on!

 

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00003046

 

Cancer is a genetic disease in many cases. Leukemia, Breast Cancer, Prostate Cancer, and many more all have some roots into genetic disorders. In the article I posted, they are testing the use of Interleukin-12b to treat cancer. Interleukin-12b works through the DNA of cells around your body by altering it to resist cancerous mutation in the genetic code of a cell.

 

Let me ask you from one 'Understanding Being' to another. Interleuken12 has been proven effective as of yet, and even may help destroy HIV with further study into I-12. Based on the equation above, do you think that those with power(money) would want something like this to ruin their billion dollar breast-cancer drives and costly medicine that only halts the progression of a disease? I'll leave that to debate.

 

he doesn't understand, does he? so it's not a personal attack but a fact.

I emphasized I was not talking about intelligence, are you able to read?

 

I don't expect you are able to understand.

 

As someone who studies in the field of medicine, I am slightly offended by this statement. I might not support every fact with a source, but this in itself leaves room for debate. Of course I am wrong on some things, but undermining my ability to understand is not the way to go in this board.

 

Edit: My apologies, but perhaps you are not a native English-Speaker? Perhaps I took that sentence the wrong way. Your lack of Colloquial writing makes me have second thoughts about what the meaning of that was. After all, if one doesn't understand how to write the language of the person you are making an inference to, then it might be a misinterpretation.

 

Good Day,

TD

[desperado2008]

please don't take it personally, I'm just respecting the truth.

Yes, I am not a native english speaker, I can fairly read but hardly wirte.

Good Day to you as well.

[Trandoshan]

please don't take it personally, I'm just respecting the truth.

 

Perhaps you are correct. I don't understand this statement. This 'Truth' that I am inherently ignorant, and cannot understand things that are painfully simple.

 

Could you please explain to me why I don't understand? I realize that it is hard to debate with a man with an incredible god-like intelligence, but will you make an exception with me and explain why my hypothesis and debate is false? All I want to know is why my opinion is worthless, and why I don't understand anything about genetics...

 

http://thenexusforums.com/index.php?showtopic=2101

 

Please back your statements with actual evidence (See rule #2). You might actually sweep my opinion to the side your trying to get me join.

 

Edit: Sorry, I was angry. This post was written in hate, and has nothing to contribute the the argument.

 

Apologies,

TD

[desperado2008]

please don't take it personally, I'm just respecting the truth.

 

Perhaps you are correct. I don't understand this statement. This 'Truth' that I am inherently ignorant, and cannot understand things that are painfully simple.

 

Could you please explain to me why I don't understand? I realize that it is hard to debate with a man with an incredible god-like intelligence, but will you make an exception with me and explain why my hypothesis and debate is false? All I want to know is why my opinion is worthless, and why I don't understand anything about genetics...

 

what you don't understand is that you can't decide anything of significance, whatever you are debating here is useless, you as an expert can't even deny my contra-argument, that means you arenot able to predict the consequence of HGE, not to mention convincing people that you can handle all the potential possibilities.

do I make it clear enough?

[lonewolfkai]

Gattaca anyone?

[Trandoshan]

"This debate over the origin of mental disorders has its roots in the Nature vs Nurture discussions."

 

"Bi-Polar Disorder 'may' have been the reason why some of those people accelerated so well in creativity. However, there are many people with Bi-polar disorder who are lacking creative ability, and people without Bi-Polar Disorder who are just as creative as the people on that list! Sure there's a list of famous people with bi-polar disoder... but..."

 

"I believe a better way to turn this conversation is to ask ourselves... what is 'Severe', and what is 'Acceptable'.

 

Bi-Polar isn't on the bad end of the mental illness spectrum. Perhaps in some cases, but I have to ask how many Bi-Polar individuals are a harm to themselves and others? Well, maybe severe cases. Still, Attention Deficit Disorder, Bi-Polar Disorder,and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder are not violent and harmful conditions. In Fact, without these conditions, drug companies will lose profit. One of the reasons that genetic engineering will not get here faster is because of Drug-Company profit. Sorry, almost went off-topic. On the other hand, sever disorders like schizophrenia should be removed. Nothing good has ever come out of that disease, and never will."

 

The following quotes was from a discussion i was having with Balagor specifically. He was exploring a sub-division of the topic that I was interested in. It had nothing to do with you, and frankly, you took it upon yourself to say the following

 

My second example was ignored, deliberately. let's make it clear, all descendants of "Grandmother of Europe" Queen Victoria are victims of hemophilia, you can put them all on the lists of extinction, can't you?

I am not talking about ethical issues nor anyone's intelligence of which I have very little curiosity(nice sarcasm, right?), it's a question of POWER. I don't think those who promote human genetic engineering are powerful enough no matter what their true motivation is.

 

in response to another post that I had posted earlier to disporve Bi-Polar Disorder being a sole factor in determining someone's creativity posted here:

 

"The real catch comes here. This event was about 4 years ago. Would you like to guess my GPA in Hischool before this event?

 

I had an average of a 2.1 GPA. Pathetic huh?

 

Guess what I made in my first Semester after this event? Straight A's. God Bless Bi-Polar Disorder? Perhaps. My college GPA is a 3.7 now.

 

O.K., O.K. time to cut the sarcasm. Did you see what I was trying to prove? Do you not disagree?"

 

Your post seemed to me that you were berating my former posts for not adressing your question due to both of our uses of sarcasm. So I answered your post with a similar attitude...

 

"Oh, heh. Hello there. I'm sorry, I was debating just that. Sorry for not responding to your post specifically... (This statement was said sarcastically.)

 

On the subject of Queen Victoria, did you know that they royal family (Of any Nation) was inbred beyond belief? It was in order to keep the peasants out of the royal blood-lines. So of course she has illness in the genetic sense, and now all of her children may have that genetic deformation because of that same genetic mutation that had occurred somewhere in her ancestor's past. As for her bloodline going extinct, modern science has cured diseases like hers with modern medicine. Any Fatal Illness can be halted for long enough for someone with said disease to reproduce. I don't see Genetic illness dieing out on its own any time soon.

 

As noted by my last post as well, the reason why diseases like Bi-Polar disorder and A.D.D. will probably never be cured genetically is because those diseases are prime targets for pharmaceutical companies. Since they are the top of the crop when it comes to power (Industrialization and the such, my friend), they will never let genetic engineering slide. Money is power, and they have quite a bit. These Free-Lance Scientists have ideas on Genetic Engineering, but no one to support or back their findings with money (A.K.A. Power)."

 

This addressed your comment, and I quote...

 

My second example was ignored, deliberately. let's make it clear, all descendants of "Grandmother of Europe" Queen Victoria are victims of hemophilia, you can put them all on the lists of extinction, can't you?

 

with the following answer

 

"On the subject of Queen Victoria, did you know that they royal family (Of any Nation) was inbred beyond belief? It was in order to keep the peasants out of the royal blood-lines. So of course she has illness in the genetic sense, and now all of her children may have that genetic deformation because of that same genetic mutation that had occurred somewhere in her ancestor's past. As for her bloodline going extinct, modern science has cured diseases like hers with modern medicine. Any Fatal Illness can be halted for long enough for someone with said disease to reproduce. I don't see Genetic illness dieing out on its own any time soon."

 

This is all true historically, and it gives a seconds side to the argument that post made. after that you were talking sarcasm...

 

Of course sorry if you are a british citizen, I did mean no offense to the queen.

 

I am not talking about ethical issues nor anyone's intelligence of which I have very little curiosity(nice sarcasm, right?)

 

This is where the misunderstanding came from, on my part.

 

The next part you commented

 

it's a question of POWER. I don't think those who promote human genetic engineering are powerful enough no matter what their true motivation is.

 

and my reply discussed the power of the pharmaceutical companies over getting anything revolutionary in the fields done.

 

"As noted by my last post as well, the reason why diseases like Bi-Polar disorder and A.D.D. will probably never be cured genetically is because those diseases are prime targets for pharmaceutical companies. Since they are the top of the crop when it comes to power (Industrialization and the such, my friend), they will never let genetic engineering slide. Money is power, and they have quite a bit. These Free-Lance Scientists have ideas on Genetic Engineering, but no one to support or back their findings with money (A.K.A. Power)."

 

Hemophilia, A.D.D., and Bi-Polar Disorder apply to this directly. As Money is Power in Today's age. Agreed?

 

Then you gave a counter argument, and demeaned me. As far as I understand.

 

Since when hemophilia could be cured by medicine? I wonder.

As far as I know, if a patient of hemophilia get internal or external bleeding, the only way to save his life is tranfusing blood constantly.

the fate of human is(shall never) not for scientists to decide. Enrico Fermi invented atomic bomb but it's Trumen who decided to use it.

I don't expect you are able to understand.

 

So I countered with a reply to the hemophilia argument with an argument that combined both Hemophilia + Bi-Polar Disorders, and explained what I meant by cure. I also agreed with your statement on power, and once again explained the subject on who I believed had the power to stop the advancement of G.E.

 

 

"Exactly, my intelligent friend. The queen is alive, lo and behold. Thank medical technology (BLOOD TRANSFUSION). A.D.D. can be cured with Vyvanse, Ritalin, or other speed-like substances. Bi-Polar Disorder can be tempered with Lithium, or other medicines.

 

Of course, I used the term 'Cure' loosely. What I meant was maintain the state of quality, or normal life.

 

As for your seconds statement. Yes, I understand this completely..."

 

and also politely asked you to cease and desist calling me retarded (Which is in a way, exactly what you were trying to say.)

 

"As someone who studies in the field of medicine, I am slightly offended by this statement. I might not support every fact with a source, but this in itself leaves room for debate. Of course I am wrong on some things, but undermining my ability to understand is not the way to go in this board.

 

Edit: My apologies, but perhaps you are not a native English-Speaker? Perhaps I took that sentence the wrong way. Your lack of Colloquial writing makes me have second thoughts about what the meaning of that was. After all, if one doesn't understand how to write the language of the person you are making an inference to, then it might be a misinterpretation.

 

Good Day,

TD"

 

In which, you replied, that I was again retarted....

 

please don't take it personally, I'm just respecting the truth.

Yes, I am not a native english speaker, I can fairly read but hardly wirte.

Good Day to you as well.

 

...By saying that your former statement was the truth.

 

So I got mad...

 

"Perhaps you are correct. I don't understand this statement. This 'Truth' that I am inherently ignorant, and cannot understand things that are painfully simple.

 

Could you please explain to me why I don't understand? I realize that it is hard to debate with a man with an incredible god-like intelligence, but will you make an exception with me and explain why my hypothesis and debate is false? All I want to know is why my opinion is worthless, and why I don't understand anything about genetics...

 

http://thenexusforums.com/index.php?showtopic=2101

 

Please back your statements with actual evidence (See rule #2). You might actually sweep my opinion to the side your trying to get me join.

 

Edit: Sorry, I was angry. This post was written in hate, and has nothing to contribute the the argument.

 

Apologies,

TD"

 

.... and apologized for it.

 

Then, here comes the grand finale!!!!

 

what you don't understand is that you can't decide anything of significance, whatever you are debating here is useless, you as an expert can't even deny my contra-argument, that means you arenot able to predict the consequence of HGE, not to mention convincing people that you can handle all the potential possibilities.

do I make it clear enough?

 

Now my opinions are useless, my expertise (Which I'm not really showing, I'm trying to have fun on these boards) is questioned, and I have no concept of HGE. You made it all clear.

 

Now I will make it clear that I misunderstood your post, and am apologizing for the third time. Now stop trolling, and continue the debate.

[LHammonds]

are you able to read?

Yep. I can read, write and rithmatick. For example: Strike 1, Strike 2, Strike 3 = you're out!

 

S-M-A-C-K ** Ban Hammer **

 

Your days of trolling these forums are over. I should have banned you right alongside skiuemyq back in January but that mistake is now corrected.

 

LHammonds (File Admin)

[Kendo 2]

Oh something I forgot to mention, tampering with genetics might have positive results for the first generation strain, but the second generation might not fair so well.

 

If I remember college biology the way I THINK I do, chromosomes duplicate before the cells divide. Since DNA is the blueprint for what makes us US, if the blueprint is not followed there are possibities for mutations. This could be bad. If we 'break the code' and remove something that was meant to be there or if we insert something that wasn't there to begin with we cannot account for what will spawn in the second generation. Cancer, physical deformities, mental retardation, heightened aggression and other traits could manifest in ways that are unseen or not intended.

 

Right now, there are genetically engineered hogs are sheep that are 'designed' to taste better and have less body fat. The key to the success of this livestock is they are not bred to a second generation. Each batch is first generation engineered and artificially inseminated. Often they're clones.

 

You can't do that with people. People have freewill and will want to love, be loved, and have sex. They wouldn't be livestock in a pen. Are any of us REALLY prepared for what second generation descendents of genetically engineered humans might be?

[Trandoshan]

Oh something I forgot to mention, tampering with genetics might have positive results for the first generation strain, but the second generation might not fair so well.

 

If I remember college biology the way I THINK I do, chromosomes duplicate before the cells divide. Since DNA is the blueprint for what makes us US, if the blueprint is not followed there are possibities for mutations. This could be bad. If we 'break the code' and remove something that was meant to be there or if we insert something that wasn't there to begin with we cannot account for what will spawn in the second generation. Cancer, physical deformities, mental retardation, heightened aggression and other traits could manifest in ways that are unseen or not intended.

 

Right now, there are genetically engineered hogs are sheep that are 'designed' to taste better and have less body fat. The key to the success of this livestock is they are not bred to a second generation. Each batch is first generation engineered and artificially inseminated. Often they're clones.

 

You can't do that with people. People have freewill and will want to love, be loved, and have sex. They wouldn't be livestock in a pen. Are any of us REALLY prepared for what second generation descendents of genetically engineered humans might be?

 

Heh, I actually recently learned something remotely like this in college. Like you have said, DNA that is altered is susceptible to mutation due to the fact that the alteration of the DNA is not done by 'removing' parts of the DNA. What happens when we try and turn off, or turn on a gene that is detrimental or benefits the host of the DNA are chemical substances known as Repressors. These repressors 'ARE' hard coded into DNA, and when removed and added to the genetic code, will not carry on to the next generation. This is why each generation must be engineered for Genetic Engineering to take effect. For more information on how repressors effect information transmission (Through mRNA), check out Operons.

 

I'm sure that's right. I did make an A on that particular test, hehe.