LE Crafting skills and perks without perk trees

[Hosseldon]

In Skyrim, there is no way to add a new perk constellation without replacing a vanilla perk tree. And there are three perk constellations completely dedicated to crafting.

My idea is to duplicate (or, if impossibile, to recreate) the three crafting skills as seen in mods like The Way of the Monk or the Woodcutting mod by Woverdude, completely untied from the character leveling progression and then make it so the perks are sold by Alchemists-Smiths-Mages when you meet the requirements (with a new line of conversation, or by books spawning in their stores just like spell books).

This way, all the modders could freely use the old perk trees for their own custom skills without the need to obliterate vanilla stuff. Mantaining the number of perks in the constellations untouched.

Also, a smith teaching you how to smith an armor is far more immersive then just...magically earn the knowlege on level up.

I'm pretty sure this would be a very challenging task, however, i hope some talented modder with scripting experience will pick up this idea and make it a reality. If not, it would still be interesting to know how all this could be implemented. I have little experience with the CK and no experience at all with scripting, so this task is out of my league, but that could change with a little help.

 

Thank you all. You're a wonderful community.

[notmyhome]

Gee, especially for smithing, that's a nice idea...

[lofgren]

Implementing the crafting perks as items to be sold would be easy. You could turn them into books just like spell books that would add the appropriate perk to the character. It wouldn't even require editing recipes. That mod would take like 10 minutes.

 

The hard part would be figuring out what to do with the empty tree.

[notmyhome]

Well, i think the idea is for the mod to be a "framework" of sorts that frees up space so other modders can put their perk trees there.

So many have complained about the perk tree restriction. If someone were to establish this groundwork, people could get creative without having to worry about compatibility with someone else's perk trees.

 

Let me explain it more clearly:

The mod proposed here would remove all three crafting perk trees. Maybe for the vanilla game to function a "simulacrum" tree is required, I don' know. A modder who then wants to his custom perk trees would have to provide his mod with a BAIN or fomod installer, so people can choose which of the free trees to overwrite - after all, some other mod may have already overwritten Smithing, so the next mod mustn't use this slot.

[lofgren]

A third party could provide the alternative methods for gaining the perks and replace the enchantments that provide a bonus to that skill, but removing and replacing the skills, as well as providing the three separate options for which skill to replace, would all be the responsibility of the modmaker. In the meantime if those skills were simply removed it would also create conflicts with many popular mods such as SPERG, SkyRe, etc.

 

I'm willing to make a mod that would allow the player to purchase smithing/alchemy/enchanting perks from appropriate vendors because it would dovetail nicely with another mod I have been thinking about that relates to alchemy recipes. I'll also add an MCM so players can turn off or on perk purchase by tree. I think removing the trees entirely is best left to the modder who is replacing the tree. But at least this way they could bundle their mod with my mod so that they wouldn't have to expend effort trying to balance an alternate method of getting access to the perks they are replacing.

 

There is also the problem of what to do about trainers, but again it seems to me that decision is best left to the skill replacer.

Edited May 10, 2014 by lofgren

[Hosseldon]

@lofgren

Awesome. Is it possibile to add a MCM option to untie the crafting skills progression from the character leveling progression? That way, once the trees are replaced by new trees (tied to the new skills progression) you're going to have 18 skills available to level up your character just like in vanilla game.

 

I have a few ideas for the three new skills. There would be a lot of options. For example, the alchemy tree could be replaced by a Hand-to-hand tree. Enchanting > It would be cool to bring Mysticism back (but i think there is a UI problem there) or maybe a shout enhancement tree.

Smithing > Spears. Especially when Soolie will release this masterpiece: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1462112-spear-and-javelin-mod-wip/

If you make this mod it would set the ground for a lot of possibilities.

 

@notmyhome A BAIN or fomod installer like that would be great. But i think lofgren is right: that's a job for the modder actually making the tree replacement.

[lofgren]

You could untie crafting skill progression from level progression (I think) but that would be a step in replacing the skill. I plan to leave the skills untouched and only provide another method of acquiring the perks.

[Deleted5770650User]

I don't know if this is possible but, and it might be annoying.

How about making a perk tree that is in a book, and leaves the vanilla perk tree untouched.

Then if someone wants they can add a perk from the vanilla perk tree in their custom book tree.

[notmyhome]

I see the advantages in untangling the alternative perk acquision from removing the actual perk tree, yes.

A very good idea of a mod! kudos!

[Hosseldon]

@lofgren

That makes sense.

Are the requirements to get the perks going to be the same as vanilla? What happens when the crafting skill is completely replaced?

I made some research on the nexus, and i couldn't find a single instance of a custom skill mod that makes your character level up without completely replacing the vanilla skill (not just the perk tree). Which btw means that I was wrong about untying the skill progression from level progression.

Now, does that mean that the vanilla skill won't level up anymore? If so, acquiring the perks would be impossibile unless the skill level requirement is removed and some other requirement is set to compensate.

And, does that mean that in the alchemy formula the skill level modifier won't have any effect? If that is the case, than maybe new perks could be added to compensate the lost benefits.

Also, since the skill would be gone for good, will the fortify skill potions and enchantments have no effect at all? If this is right then the effect of those potions and enchantment should be modified to affect some other modifier. Is that possibile?

 

I'm not trying to make you do more work, I know this should be responsibility of the custom skill modmaker. I'm just trying to figure out what it will take to make a skill replacer and your mod work well together.

 

@chevyowner

I'm not sure i understand what you're saying. How do you put a perk tree in a book? Did you mean a perk in a book? If so, then it's pretty much what lofgren is saying. I think.