Dumbing Down The Game And Other Issues.

[Stampede]

OBLIVION FOR LIFE!!!!!

 

I am a fan in case you did not realise. As with any new title there will always be a big give and take and the takes always seem to overshadow the gives. I missed the initial comparisons of Morrowind to Daggerfall, but I can only imagine what the fans were saying.

 

I'm very satisfied, though my sympathies go out to skill and spear modders. I learnt from Morrowind not to put anything past their skill. (Though I am going to keep Oblivion as clean as possible.)

[Daethar]

....

o_O

Oh yeah you mean to play a Scottish character right ;)

 

Speaking of, quick question, why would a Nord have "woad?". Woad...wasn't...viking....much less Tamrielic.

 

That difficulty slider is a tricky thing, too.

[Stampede]

....

o_O

Oh yeah you mean to play a Scottish character right ;)

 

Speaking of, quick question, why would a Nord have "woad?". Woad...wasn't...viking....much less Tamrielic.

 

That difficulty slider is a tricky thing, too.

 

Off topic I know, but I have always considered Elder Scrolls nordic culture to be a mix of both the vikings and the scots.

[ATHORIEL]

Glad others got past my english skill to comment on what I was saying! Anyway Hooray for the modders out there, love you guys! I think those above have a point on the game being dumb down for non PC users but that shouldnt take away the fact this might not be as good playing wise a MW but its a damn good game anyway. :ph34r:

[ThetaOrionis01]

I have to agree on the dumbing down issue.

 

 

To start with, I rather dislike the toddler-friendly interface in chunky, rounded safety plastic - guaranteed no sharp edges. And all that endless scrolling, and jumping between sub-menus gets very tedious very quickly.

 

But it's a minor gripe compared to the in-game nanny Bethesda have seen fit to give us. Any time the cursor turns red it feels like I'm getting yelled at "DON'T TOUCH THAT IT'S NOT YOURS!!" and have my greedily outstretched thieving fingers smacked.

 

 

However, that's still not the biggest complaint I have. Now, at this point in my life, my cutlery skills are pretty much maxed out, so I tend not to take too kindly to being spoonfed. Yet the game and every NPC in it seem to assume that I am completely incapable of drawing conclusions, and that they shouldn't put a poor old dear like me to the trouble of having to find things out for herself. So I'm sent on an errand to a cave. I'm told its approximate location - which would be fine - but it doesn't stop there. It's like the NPCs are thinking: "Hang on, she looks a bit dim, better mark the exact spot on her map and give her a nice marker on her compass - she'll never find it otherwise."

The first quest I did after leaving the prison sewers had great potential in that it was a lot more complex than the standard Morrowind quest, and had a nice little twist to boot - but it was utterly spoiled by the journal telling me what to do at every single step. "Ok, you've talked to the guy, now wait until he leaves and follow him to find out what he does." Why, thanks - I'd never have figured that out for myself. And, gosh, why would an open mausoleum in a graveyard be the least bit suspicious? Better give me a pop-up as I approach, just in case I haven't quite figured out yet how to add up 2 and 2.

 

To be honest, I find this degree of spoonfeeding insulting, and for me it takes away the enjoyment of figuring things out for myself.

 

 

But then again, the game has such pretty flowers to pick, and the deer are very cute.

[imahoot]

The interface was clearly designed to make it easy to navigate for the 360 users. Don't even try to argue otherwise. There's mods to turn off the arrows/PoIs on the compass (arrows still show up on the map, but you can just pull that quest out of the active quest thing). But yea, they removed a lot of the logic/thinking parts that make these games a lot more fun for the most of us, so the HALO2 XBOXOMGZ kids could still have fun.

 

I think it's simply a matter of time before the modding community comes in full-force and tears apart every little gripe we have about the game and makes it perfect. But in the meantime, it's still a great game imo.

[jdarksun]

However, that's still not the biggest complaint I have. Now, at this point in my life, my cutlery skills are pretty much maxed out, so I tend not to take too kindly to being spoonfed. Yet the game and every NPC in it seem to assume that I am completely incapable of drawing conclusions, and that they shouldn't put a poor old dear like me to the trouble of having to find things out for herself. So I'm sent on an errand to a cave. I'm told its approximate location - which would be fine - but it doesn't stop there. It's like the NPCs are thinking: "Hang on, she looks a bit dim, better mark the exact spot on her map and give her a nice marker on her compass - she'll never find it otherwise."

The first quest I did after leaving the prison sewers had great potential in that it was a lot more complex than the standard Morrowind quest, and had a nice little twist to boot - but it was utterly spoiled by the journal telling me what to do at every single step. "Ok, you've talked to the guy, now wait until he leaves and follow him to find out what he does." Why, thanks - I'd never have figured that out for myself. And, gosh, why would an open mausoleum in a graveyard be the least bit suspicious? Better give me a pop-up as I approach, just in case I haven't quite figured out yet how to add up 2 and 2.

 

To be honest, I find this degree of spoonfeeding insulting, and for me it takes away the enjoyment of figuring things out for myself.

 

But then again, the game has such pretty flowers to pick, and the deer are very cute.

Erm... I can't say I agree with you on all points. Yes, the interface is incredibly lame.

 

But complaining about displaying to the user whether or not something is marked as owned property? How could you possibly know otherwise, except through trial and error? In the real world, we can ask a person if they mind if we use something before taking it. The red hand just represents that - indeed, someone does mind if you use it. How is the alternative (saving, picking something up, then reloading when "stop thief!" is yelled at you) better?

 

Now, the map's not great - I'd rather it give you general markings when you stumble on (or can physically see) something. Like a small "Ayelid Ruins?" marker placed on your map if you see it on a nearby hilltop, with the location more accurately placed once you visit it. I don't think it should blatantly say "Black Rock Caverns" unless you've pinpointed the location and found some material to give a name to the place (like in all the wonderful books). But generally speaking, I like it when games do some of the cartography grunt work for you - it keeps me from having to take notes on everything that's said. :)

 

Worse than giving you too much map information, in my opinion, is the inability to make (and attach a name or note to) multiple markers of your own. That was as bad of a decision as the inventory UI.

[ThetaOrionis01]

But complaining about displaying to the user whether or not something is marked as owned property? How could you possibly know otherwise, except through trial and error? In the real world, we can ask a person if they mind if we use something before taking it. The red hand just represents that - indeed, someone does mind if you use it. How is the alternative (saving, picking something up, then reloading when "stop thief!" is yelled at you) better?

 

To each his or her own.

 

I completely disagree with you on that. In the real world, when I go into a shop I assume that the goods on display belong to the shop's owners, when I go up to a market stall I assume that the goods on sale belong to the stallholder, when I go to someone else's house I assume that the stuff in it belongs to the people who live there - and that if I start putting other people's property into my bag the owners are likely to get a tad miffed. I'm also quite capable of making the logical leap that in a game which aims for realistic NPC behaviour similar ownership patterns will exist.

 

I don't need to have the obvious pointed out to me every time I move the mouse, and for me, it detracts from the enjoyment of the game.

[jdarksun]

To each his or her own.

 

I completely disagree with you on that. In the real world, when I go into a shop I assume that the goods on display belong to the shop's owners, when I go up to a market stall I assume that the goods on sale belong to the stallholder, when I go to someone else's house I assume that the stuff in it belongs to the people who live there - and that if I start putting other people's property into my bag the owners are likely to get a tad miffed. I'm also quite capable of making the logical leap that in a game which aims for realistic NPC behaviour similar ownership patterns will exist.

 

I don't need to have the obvious pointed out to me every time I move the mouse, and for me, it detracts from the enjoyment of the game.

And when you go into a guild to which you belong? Which items there can you use, and which are personal belongings? What about a Tavern or Inn - whose drink is that? Can you eat the food in your room? I agree that when going into a shop you'd expect nothing to be free as in beer, but there are other places in the game world whose doors are open.

 

At the same time, I don't understand why these things weren't options. Knowing the player base, I'd have assumed that Bethesda Softworks would have realized that more than a handful of players like The Elder Scrolls for its... ah... "Old School" mentality (I suppose one could phrase it). An options page with "Confirm before selling", "Warn before stealing", etc would have been nice.

[Daethar]

Thankfully people are able to mod all those things right now. With all the limitations on the CS, people have still figured out how to take off the selling confirmation.

 

Don't feel bad about changing the game to suit you. Think of it as users putting in the option to turn off stuff that should have been included in the options menu anyway :)