Is The Goverment Spying On Us ?

[Balagor]

i know people who spent two weeks in jail for having one joint on them and others who walked free with 4kg weed and a shopping bag full of pills (some thousand fit in there) just because they either were well connected or knew the right words.

 

>>>>OF TOPIC<<<<<

It also appears incredible that you should walk free with 4 keys of weed+pills.

From DK we can usually compare us with Germany.

And I can asure you carrying that load, would present you in front of a judge+ some 3-4 years of prison.

[rebalious]

(btw i dont think i can fight anything in here, i more or less post cause im bored right now lol, but well maybe someone will read it and even without noticing will become a better person or more understanding, changing the world in a small way at least hehe :P.... well i can hope now can i?)

I don't bother writing to sway people, I'm just here for the exchange of opinions. I suck at persuassion. Also so do you believe it is only others who need to be changed, or are you including yourself in that statement?

 

@Balagor

Maybe those "right words" were "I'll share if you let me walk", or maybe "Theres money in it for you".

[desperado2008]

@tortured Tomato

you are good guy but you don't get the point, though they make it very clear.

@jaysus

I understand exactly what you feel. we all are mortals so we don't have to blame ourselves for weakness.

@Vagrant

intimidation works.

[phoneyLogic]

You are right, I didn't get it. So what's the point?

 

So basicly "the job" secret services are doing is regarding the potential dangers necessary. The question is: How far is a secret service allowed to go?

If things like torture are in fact illegal than a governemental organisation should not be allowed to do so. If they start feeling kind of standing over the laws, then you can't trust them any longer. And we would have to stop them, because they are becoming a potential danger itself.

 

Or am I completely wrong?

[AncientSpaceAeon]

OffTopic : I've made this topic so I can participate by debating. Now, I don't know how. I just don't understand what you guys/girls are saying !!! (I'm still 13)

[rebalious]

We went way off topic, basically going on about ethics and morality of governments... lets try to stay on topic from now on.

[Vagrant0]

@Vagrant

intimidation works.

Not as well as you might think, and only serves to breed dissonance which can cause normal people to seek out destructive ends. It's like how an abusive father might punish his teenager. The more abusive the father gets, the less that teenager will listen even when it's something that helps everyone. Furthermore, that teenager is more likely to act out against their parent or even go as far as hurting/killing them in extreme cases. As I always say, conflict only begets more conflict.

 

If things like torture are in fact illegal than a governemental organisation should not be allowed to do so.

They go around the system or just classify everything under the premise of national security of course. However, in reality, more torture goes on against normal prison inmates (in almost any country) than against supposed terrorists. You just don't hear about it because the guards (non-millitary or government) remain quiet and the inmates have no way to complain. The things that reportedly go on in normal prisons in some countries would put make water-boarding seem like a day at the spa.

 

You only know about what the CIA/FBI/American Military has done because information got leaked to the press. Same thing as that happened in Abu-grabe (or however you spell it). Anywhere else, either it wouldn't have gotten leaked, or the media wouldn't have been able to report it.

Edited February 14, 2010 by Vagrant0

[jaysus]

@tomatoe

thats what i just said, a judge decides all your fate... and they have quite alot of room to make a sentence, ranging from a bit of communal work to 5yrs of prison up to unlimited sentences if they think you acted organized aka with friends hence it not a ruling according to law but arbitrariness of the judge who in most cases listens to the DA

 

that guy with the 4kg and the bag of pills was a "junge union" parlamentarien who in the end had to pay a fine of i think 3k euro to get free and the convicton was made in a CDU controlled state

that other guy with the two weeks in jail for one joint was a pupil i knew from communal service :P, and no he wasnt illegal lol, he was a german citizen

 

also if youre illegaly in germany you dont get send to jail but to "abschiebehaft" which is a lot more terrible than a normal jail (have a friend sitting there right now... well since 1yr now tho he has a german wife, a doctor degree and a german baby... hed even go home instead of staying but hes not allowed, has to stay in jail lol... screw that!)... worse even than the notorious criminal brewing and health destroyin "jugendarrest"... get there and get home utterly ill due to the conditions under which you live there which rival russian jails...

 

@vagrant

intimidation works indeed, just take the GDR, Russia, China, Machiavelli... Fear is the best way to control a cattle, thats why we use dogs aka wolves to drive sheep and not a hand full of candy...

but what you said isnt false either, sure people who are getting intimidated alot will eventually become nasty people themselves, however theyll still do as you lease as long as they fear you, how many kids actually fight back against their abusive parents (to take up this example)?

[desperado2008]

You are right, I didn't get it. So what's the point?

 

So basicly "the job" secret services are doing is regarding the potential dangers necessary. The question is: How far is a secret service allowed to go?

If things like torture are in fact illegal than a governemental organisation should not be allowed to do so. If they start feeling kind of standing over the laws, then you can't trust them any longer. And we would have to stop them, because they are becoming a potential danger itself.

 

Or am I completely wrong?

 

nothing but truth, there is also a homonymic film, take a sight and it helps understanding how the world actually works, btw, Kate Beckingsale is beautiful.

[Maxwell the Fool]

I don't like the government having more power than is necessary to keep order.

 

Even if their intentions are good now who knows what could happen in four years (the amount of time between major elections here in America).