Animal Manslaughter?

[Kendo 2]

@Kendo 2

I think I found a "spelling error" in the last sentence.

I found a spelling error in your sig Kendo. Oy is actually spelled Oi. but whatever.

 

*off-topic*

 

:P It's not 'oi' as the Oi band 'oi'. Believe me, I know the difference. It's my version of a phonetic spelling for Vyvyan's accent when he says 'Hey'. Adrian Edmondson dropped the H and used a lot of crazy word contractions when he played the character.

 

We would say 'Horrible hairy spiders.'

 

Vyvyan would say 'Orrible airy spiders'.

 

When I typed out 'Ey' for 'Hey' it looked like it was a question instead of a statement of fact. Like he was saying 'Eh?'

 

;)

 

*back on-topic*

 

People made it what it is whether that's a rogue killer or an intelligent creature driven mad.

 

 

Yes, they did.

 

EDIT: And the people responsible for that need to be locked away for life, since the orca has already killed three people.

[Balagor]

@Kendo 2

Sorry my joke didn´t work. Spelling error was a joke, :biggrin: referring to that you only wanted The Florida marine park closed to public, and not for good. I don´t care how you spell (no offense) :whistling: I can´t spell english properly myself

 

Speaking about the incident in Florida Park. Wonder why no one ever go swimming with a great white. They are intelligent preditors too. :mellow:

[Kendo 2]

@Kendo 2

Sorry my joke didn´t work. Spelling error was a joke, :biggrin: referring to that you only wanted The Florida marine park closed to public, and not for good. I don´t care how you spell (no offense) :whistling: I can´t spell english properly myself

 

Speaking about the incident in Florida Park. Wonder why no one ever go swimming with a great white. They are intelligent preditors too. :mellow:

 

 

I guess I should have stated what you have. Yes, close it down for good. :yes:

[myrmaad]

Leave for a day, and what do you get?

 

A Consensus!

[Retribution]

I believe that people that are cruel to animals should be punished severely. However, if someone shoots an animal because it is causing harm to them or animals that belong to them, they shouldn't be punished. I think that the whole thing with horses is stupid though. You can't kill them, can't find another home for them, and can't hand them off to the government. In this economy, you usually can't sell them either. If I was you, Kendo, I'd just kill it. Oh, and earlier you said "dolphins are intelligent, maybe on the level of humans and maybe more so". There's no way that dolphins are smarter than humans. Just thought I'd point that out.

[Balagor]

Is the Dolphins or any animals smarter/more clever/more intelligent than humans? That depends on the way we meassure it. Who is/was the most intelligent in the world? Einstein many would say. ( will not argue if it could be others). He could calculate beyond anyone´s imaginations. But what his brain did, was nothing more than a seagull does, when finding its way around on the planet. Simple process.

 

What about the orang-outan, isn´t it smart when it takes a stick to dig out termites from their tuft? It is intelligence + a tool, task done.

 

How smart are we, when we drain the planet for all resourses just because we can, not because we need, and not able to do something about it? Compared to that there is a small bug everybody with a garden hate, the aphids. When they overpopulate a rose, they produce a hormone, that signals to everybody that it is time to produce wings, and get out of here.

 

In all corners of the animal kingdom, insects etc. we can find species that are superior to humans. Yet we have the audacity to speak about how they should behave, how they should be punished if they do not behave?

[Retribution]

In all corners of the animal kingdom, insects etc. we can find species that are superior to humans.

Not in intelligence.

[Kendo 2]

I believe that people that are cruel to animals should be punished severely. However, if someone shoots an animal because it is causing harm to them or animals that belong to them, they shouldn't be punished. I think that the whole thing with horses is stupid though. You can't kill them, can't find another home for them, and can't hand them off to the government. In this economy, you usually can't sell them either. If I was you, Kendo, I'd just kill it. Oh, and earlier you said "dolphins are intelligent, maybe on the level of humans and maybe more so". There's no way that dolphins are smarter than humans. Just thought I'd point that out.

 

 

Yeah, I know. On the 'scala naturae' animals rank the same, but have specialized brain functions for the parts they play. Squirrles remember where they stash nuts, but can't herd sheep like a collie, etc. What the hell? They're animals. People humanize animals for various personal reasons. I think anthropomorphism is simply misguided. I was playing Devil's Advocate for the sake of the debate and I KNOW the orca in question is an animal and NOT a 'person' or even freak'n close.

 

As for the bronc, it's day will come like all living things. We don't do any preventive medicine on it and it gets the same State-mandated dope the beef steers do. I'm not doing anything to extend the horse's life but I'm not doing anything to shorten it either.

[Trandoshan]

In all corners of the animal kingdom, insects etc. we can find species that are superior to humans.

Not in intelligence.

 

Depends on what you define as intelligence.

[Maigrets]

In all corners of the animal kingdom, insects etc. we can find species that are superior to humans.

Not in intelligence.

 

Depends on what you define as intelligence.

 

"Intelligence is an umbrella term describing a property of the mind comprehending related abilities, such as the capacities for abstract thought, reasoning, planning and problem solving, the use of language, and to learn."

 

General definition from Wikipedia which is a good enough source for a quick search. I'm sure if I spent the time I could find volumes on the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence

 

All of these except perhaps some abstract thought have been proven in at least one species of what are loosely termed "animals." Just because we can perform amazing feats of mathematics, read and write volumes of information, and build skyscrapers doesn't make us superior.

 

However, animals certainly do have the capacity to learn, solve problems, plan, and reason. Even language is inherent in animals in the form of body gestures, odours, sounds and probably more. The ability to really "listen" is something we've lost. We used to have other layers of communication, but those have generally been lost as well.

 

Deodorants mask scent for example. Bodily odour is a major form of communication ranging from fear, aggression , sexual attractiveness, and territorial marking via excretion. A living thing requires some level of intelligence to communicate at any level and this alone makes animals more intelligent than a jellyfish, which also has it's own forms of communication.

 

Sometimes intelligence in creatures is thought to be based on instinct, which is why they've survived millions of years of evolution and are still evolving. That is if we don't exterminate them all.

Not everything can be explained away by instinct. Animals form social connections, they have real emotions, feel fear and pain, and in the case of some species like pigs, can recognize individuals of a large group and have language in the form of sound and touch. These aren't just instinctual traits on their own. They come from learning, whether it's by avoidance, bonding or just plain experience.

 

Just because we can't speak with them in a meaningful way, reason with them, or more importantly in many cases dominate them to make ourselves feel big and strong, the animals obviously must be "dumb" as defined by some sectors of humanity. Real intelligence besides the obvious mental acuity, comes from more than brain capacity. Ignorance is a human failing that constantly stunts our growth as a species.

 

It's my belief and I know some will immediately disagree, but true intelligence comes from respect, having the humility to recognize we inhabit a planet with many species of living beings that have just as much right to exist, and most of all realizing we have a lot to learn from them. When a murderer for example is caught people often label him an animal. Very few animals behave the way humans do and I for one am thankful for that.

 

Intelligence does not only equal the human brain and it's meanderings.

 

To quote a famous American:

"It is just like man’s vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions."

Mark Twain

 

I realize it wouldn't matter how much empirical evidence exists, certain levels of society just would not accept that anything could be even close to their level of thought and reasoning. This is the road of true ignorance that still plagues us even after centuries of so called enlightenment and education and why we'll be outlived by the dumb animals in the end. Unless of course we destroy the planet as well.

 

People still believe the Earth is flat. Google their website, it's quite active. If you were to read some of their reasoning, it's pretty astounding how they come to their conclusions, yet they believe it and I don't condemn them for it. If that's what they believe so be it. Then there's the question of superstition and faith in things we can't see or hear, yet for some reason we think they are true.

 

Take a look at your neighbours sometime...not the people who live next door, but people who touch your life one way or another every day. A lot of them lack the true intelligence gene in my opinion, and I'm not referring to people with intellectual or other disabilities. Some behave and display no more intelligence than a chimpanzee, which if observed in it's natural habitat, demonstrates the worst of human traits.

 

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.

— Mahatma Gandhi

 

I realize I may not be as articulate or well educated as some, but anyone can copy or quote from texts on the Internet. What I write is in my own words except for the famous people quotes and Wiki link. I'm open to my surroundings and I don't think I'm better than anyone else, human or otherwise.

 

Not to get totally off the original topic:

How is it we hear and focus so much more on tragic events than inspiring ones? Animals that have hurt or killed humans have done it because of humans who don't accept the blame for their actions and feel the need to blame something other than themselves.

 

The example of the horse that can't be broken is a testament to this. Punishing a beast that doesn't understand why it's being beaten or dominated for not conforming is hardly superior. I champion the animal for not allowing it's spirit to be broken, even if it dies in the process. It still won't have understood why, but will be proof of human failing. My father was like this and it did him no good in the end. Of his worst character flaws mental and physical domination was the worst. It's ugly and damaging to everyone concerned and I saw first hand the "other" side of humane treatment.

 

Take some inspiration from the story of Christian the Lion cub from Harrods. This is just a short video but the full story is around on DVD. I have it. This always brings tears to my eyes and not because of the song...I'm not a Whitney Houston fan, but the song does add to the moment.

It proves wild animals can be returned to the wild and that they will still recognize kindness years later.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0G_ZuBGD-0

 

Edit:

When I work out how to embed this video I'll edit the post. It doesn't work the same way as other forums where I've linked Youtube vids.