Animal Manslaughter?

[slygothmog]

You are a STAR Maigrets.

You place things in a way that i wish to, but cannot find the words to do so.

I love you.

[Balagor]

The same here, you really leave me stunned @Maigrets

You can pinn it out so detailed that I have noting more to say, than I share your view, and I support you 100% :D

[ginnyfizz]

Well I don't. Maigrets is obviously passionate about her subject as is her right, but there are always too many emotions flying whenever the subject of animal rights is concerned. Take the issue of hunting which you are all so quick to condemn as cruel. In the case of the red fox, grant you he is a handsome fellow but he is as much vermin as any rat and carries as much disease. Now it's lambing time in the hill country of the North of England where I live. Sure, the fox is going to regard it as all his birthdays rolled into one. But don't expect the hill farmers to love him for it, they aren't making a living wage as it is. Now that the hunts are no longer allowed to thin the foxes out to a reasonable level, what goes on is more akin to extermination. Gassing, baiting,shooting. OK if you are a good shot and kill the critter outright, the latter, but often as not they're using 12 bore shotguns and not at point blank range, so the critter gets wounded and crawls off to a lingering death. But one way or another, the farmers will have them gone. The kill by hounds, by contrast, though it can be very messy, is very quick indeed.

 

I am very well aware that spinal units are also littered with other sportsmen and women, as I can and do read, but we had specifically been talking about horse riding and training. In the UK statistically the most dangerous sports, taking account of deaths and crippling injuries, happen to be...horse riding and rugby union. Yeah, we choose to do these sports. I have insurance to cover me specifically to ride and compete, and I wear a hard hat to regulation standards, and if I am breaking a horse, a body protector as well. But the case of horses and their training is the perfect way to come back to topic. You DO have to assert that dominance and produce an animal with decent temperament and manners, but there is a world of difference between that and a horse that is literally broken. And you know why? Because if I and the breeders I have worked for in the past had turned out a total psycho beast that proceeded to maim or kill a person due to its uncontrollable behaviour, we'd have been sued, prosecuted, ruined, AND RIGHTLY SO. I'm not talking about a horse that occasionally pops a cheeky buck or skip in, or a horse that rears in terror (like the one at my local county show that got spooked by some rowdy drunks and crippled its rider.) What I mean is the sort of horse that is out and out wicked. They do exist, and as a trainer you would NOT sell or even give them to anyone. If you knowingly did, you could well be looking at animal manslaughter charges, and would deserve them.

[Kendo 2]

There's that word again...'hypocrisy'. I've been labled a hypocrite in this thread because I don't share the views of others. That has to be the case because I live by the codes I espouse. I don't 'pretend' anything. I don't have to. I'm not a hypocrite. For instance, I don't lament that animals are slaughtered for their meat and hides, yet eat meat and wear leather products. I don't claim to be a pet owner and all love animals, yet feed my pets food made from OTHER ANIMALS. If I did that I WOULD a hypocrite. And I haven't labled anyone else posting a hypocrite or accused them of anything. I don't know them in RL so how can I?

 

*shrugs* :confused:

[Maigrets]

@ Ginnyfizz

You don't see the point of what I'm saying and you are as free to disagree with me as I am free to disagree with you. What I'm talking about is being humane. If humans can't or don't care about the animals and the environment how in the world can they care about each other? But, they don't except for themselves and their little center of the universe.

 

It's all choice. You choose what to eat, what sport to play, what to read and which movies to watch. You decide to drive or not, or to ride that horse or reason with a raging bull or any other dangerous activity. No-one is making you do it and with regard to making a living and putting a roof over your head that's also choice. There are moral choices as well as financial ones and there is often the difference.

 

Humans choose to kill or torment for sport or entertainment, not just animals, but each other and often only because they don't like the way someone looked at them.

I never said, if you actually read what I said, that hunting for food, shelter and survival is wrong. Other animals kill for the same reasons, they just don't do it for perversity, whether the person doing it realizes it or not. Otherwise, why allow and encourage a pack of dogs to tear apart a live fox? Why allow dog fighting when the dogs can't escape their tormentors and often die torn to pieces and are tortured to make them savage by humans so they will fight.

 

Not so many months ago a couple of young children, pre teens, cut the ears and tail off an 8 week old puppy and left it to die, another group almost beat a 70 year old blind flamingo to death in a zoo, an old cat was thrown into the surf at Bondi Beach and left to drown. The owner didn't want it anymore, so that seemed the easy way out of it where he or she could have surrendered it to the RSPCA or a Vet without cost. Kittens are set alight and left to die. The puppy lived and was adopted and the flamingo survived, no thanks to their attackers.

 

Things like this go on everyday and they are only the ones that make the News. People are immune to it. Even children living in appalling conditions in well off Westernized countries don't engender the kind of emotion it should. Let alone the Third World.

 

Obviously people who think this way also believe animals feel no fear or pain or suffer at all, so perhaps you can clarify for me why it's so much "fun" to inflict this on them. I'm sure a gang of human thugs don't believe the weaker one they pick on has feelings or responds to pain either and just don't care anyway, so lets allow them to continue terrorizing the weak because it doesn't matter and we shouldn't get involved. This type of behaviour is unacceptable.

 

People the world over use the word "civilized" to describe humanity. What a joke. If that's part of being civilized then the world is heading down a slippery slope and in fact has been teetering on the edge for a very long time. It comes down to basic decency, otherwise when will wars end and the so called peace everyone professes to want occur. Never if the money men have anything to say about it. Unfortunately, peace is bad for business.

 

I may be passionate in my views, but what people don't seem to realize is everything is a choice. I choose to be different and not engage in activities I know are morally wrong and will give me nightmares every night.

 

Don't worry, I've been told before that I'm not a sheep who follows the herd (or team player in modern speak) and that's how I like it, although for work purposes I do the team spirit thing because it's expected. To a point.

 

My life hasn't been adversely affected by caring and I daresay it won't in the future.

[ginnyfizz]

I think it is YOU missing the point Maigrets, and by the way DO NOT talk about me in the same breath as people who organize dogfights, which has ALWAYS been illegal in my lifetime and in which I have never been involved and have never wished to be You should retract this imputation, methinks.

 

Foxes are vermin, did you miss that point? It is not illegal to kill them by means which are far more protracted than the kill by hounds (can you remember me mentioning gassing, poison baiting, shooting inaccurately?) but "the good death" as it was once called, IS illegal. And most hunting folk don't go along to see the kill, as mostly they won't see it, they will just hear the huntsman blow for the kill. I HAVE seen it since I have field mastered and been on hunt staff. Not pretty, but extremely quick.

 

Oh how I love people who are always morally right, in their own opinion. Like the bunny huggers who think it is OK to beat up research scientists, set trip wires for hunt horses, scare my horse with a klaxon and put me in hospital for two days, burned down the house of a young huntsman and forced him and his family to flee in the middle of the night...

[Balagor]

There are no vermin on the planet earth but the human species itself, since this species is the one that threadens all other species.

As for the fox it can not be hunted in DK except for the hunting season, and only by ordinairy ways.

We actually do not have many of them left here in DK, they do not seem to be a problem to farmers.

Once in a while a fox take all my chickens. I can live with that.

 

I do not claim to be morally rigt, I just fail to see why all this unnecessery killing should be done, when not needed. Look at the wolfes. The thread from them was exagerated during centuries, and now they are gone. They were called vermins too.

 

Who are we who thinks we have the rigt to give others titles, and hunt them down massively. Look to the animal world itself. If someone poses a thread, they will either run or attack. They will not go an hunt the entire colony down.

[Kendo 2]

There are no vermin on the planet earth but the human species itself

 

NOW the truth comes out. All of this pom-pom shaking over animals rights is REALLY about a loathing of mankind in general.

 

It's been sneaking in post by post throughout this thread and there it is in black and white for all to read. The cover been has blown and the agenda exposed for what it really is.

 

Human beings who state that other human beings are vermin are found through out history. Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and Idi Amin were all avid animal lovers and valued the worth of their own pets over that of other human beings. They crammed their beliefs and their 'values' down the throats of millions of people who didn't agree with them. Anyone who disagreed was shut down and shut out. Go back and read some of the posts in this thread and you'll see prime examples of that.

 

No Balagor, I AM NOT comparing you or anyone else here at Nexus to mass-murdering, hard-left socialist psychos, so don't you or anyone else even try that angle. But the same shout-down-tactics and ridicule has been used to silence the opposing view in this debate. Now I am lying, or am I pointing out the obvious?

[Balagor]

@Kendo 2

No, you are not pointing out the obvious, at all.

>off topic<

People like Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and Idi Amin, perhaps animal lovers, forced their ideoligies, and would never allow open civilized debate in a forum like this.

[ginnyfizz]

:wallbash:

 

I think I see a certain amount of attempted forcing of ideology in this thread actually, by all the animal lover/human haters who "know they are morally right"....