Enclave, Brotherhood, Or YOU?

[falloutperson416]

If President Eden did go through with his plan then the population would be too low for Humanity to ever recover. The only way for humans to rebuild is too all join together under The Enclave. One America. One Enclave. And you would make a proper good adversary for me to fight. And I'm glad you think my idea is good. Plus it would actually make people (Other than that old guy in Megaton) in The CW like The Enclave.

 

I still don't think the Enclave are the right choice... after all they are lead by a robot. BOS FTW!

[warkiller75]

you CANT join the enclave, they consider anyone that isnt in the Enclave or an unopened vault to be mutants.

 

 

and no not a robot, a self aware ZAX computer that when the oil rig exploded, having been monotoring its creators, presented itself as a presidential advisor, and later became the president and called all surviving Enclave personell to the East coast, the only people aware of this are Col. autmn, his dad(dead), and you.

Edited August 12, 2011 by warkiller75

[DavidYokosukaJapan]

you CANT join the enclave, they consider anyone that isnt in the Enclave or an unopened vault to be mutants.

 

 

and no not a robot, a self aware ZAX computer that when the oil rig exploded, having been monotoring its creators, presented itself as a presidential advisor, and later became the president and called all surviving Enclave personell to the East coast, the only people aware of this are Col. autmn, his dad(dead), and you.

I was reading through this post where people were writing "Make the Enclave do this," "overthrow then Enclave and make them join me.." and thinking... they totally were just mashing the "shoot" button the whole game and not actually listening to the story at all... :facepalm:

 

Finally facts!

Warkiller75's comment on the Enclave in this thread is the one that makes the most sense, and again has 'facts on the Enclave' and correctly points out that the Lone Wanderer *can't* join them even if he/she wanted to. :dry:

 

That being said, I'd join East Coast BoS simply because they've been doing something "for the people" for the past 20 years in the DC area. That they aren't efficient at it is besides the point. They just need leadership that plans better strategically.

 

 

 

Useless trivia:

The Enclave, who claim to be from the US Government, have defaced Old Glory with that ridiculous "E." :rolleyes:

 

I state with confidence that real government officials "re-instating the US government" would definitely not modify (actually "deface") the US Flag by sticking a "E" on it. At most they would have reverted to an earlier version of the flag.

[charwo]

Wow. Just wow. I want to read all of these responses when I get a chance.

 

Do you know my honest answer: conditionally Enclave. Specifically the Enclave that follows Autumns Project Purity desires. But here me out:

 

Both Autumn and Eden were made monsters at the foot of evil. The Enclave is a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE organization, and in Fallout 2 I killed them without mercy. Eden wants to be a good person, but he learned good and evil from the Enclave perspective, both in terms of pre-war protocols and chatter with the Rig. And he has to go, because he is a continuance of them. I would reform him if I could, and he has as much right to be President as any other leader of the post rig Enclave. His being a computer has no bearing. Autumn is way different. He wants to vett the capital wasteland. He's seen through the Nazism of the Encalve to see that at least some of humans outside are as human as he. This represents huge growth for the Enclave. It represents a turn towards sanity.

 

Autumn is deeply patriotic, but like Eden, he learned his good and bad, his love of country from a morally bankrupt caricature of America. But he has grown despite this, possibly despite himself, just as the Remnants in New Vegas have. The problem with the Enclave is essentially they are so insular. If they ruled the wasteland and interacted with the people as overlords, their formal adherence to American ideals will soften their stony hearts. Eden wants to destroy, Autumn wants to rule and ruling a people changes them. I could even see Autumn learning to tolerate ghouls, if they share his love of America and the desire to rebuild it burns in them as strongly as it does with him. And with the pre-war ghouls, there probably are. There are probably former American soldiers among the Ghouls, and in a society as traditional, authoritarian and militaristic as the Enclave, this will cause soul searching if they can tell their stories to the Enclave and not be shot.

 

Who else fights for America in the Capital Wasteland? Who takes it to be a living idea, a dream to be pursued, not a lost age to be mourned? That's not a rhetorical question. The East Coast Brotherhood might have changed enough to be fighting for the idea of America. Hover Dam changed Ulysses forever, I can't imagine what the Brotherhood went through walking the Mall and seeing Capitol, and the Archives and the Monuments. What I can tell you, is that about halfway through Operation Anchorage, which I always play through early as a roleplaying justification, my Lone Wanderer April St. Vincent, seeing an untarnished American Flag flying over the Mining Town, truly felt the Vault teachings were right: America really did live in her. America becomes her hope, her fight, her obsession. For a people in the broken world, the glories of the Old World inspire a fevered madness. I imagine some it breaks, some it makes the greatest of badasses. TVtropes call them The Fettered.

 

The Enclave, not for the Enclave as it exists, but for the end to which they fight. America, sea to shining sea. They will find themselves decent human beings despite the best efforts of their ancestors. America does that. Slowly, but it does that.

[falloutperson416]

Amazing this topic is still getting posts after a year of being up. Thanks everyone!

[DavidYokosukaJapan]

I’m stuck sitting here doing mandatory Windows 7 training and the Automated Lecturer started sounding like Charlie Brown’s teacher after the first 10 minutes… “Wah wa wahh wah wa… ,“ and I thought, “now would be a great time to respond to that one long post, “Brotherhood, Enclave, or YOU.” I’m a stickler about "in game canon" btw.

And so…

 

 

The way I played my latest character was to side with the BoS up until you get to choose whether to bomb the Citadel, whereby I bombed the Citadel. The effect being both powers were crippled in the Capital Wasteland, leaving me to reign supreme ...

(Follow-up operations involved cleaning out the GNR Building, among others ...)

I might do what I did in my first playthrough + Broken Steel, crush the Enclave with the Brotherhood of Steel's help, then use the satellite nukes to destroy the Citadel. Followed up by hunting down the last remaining BoS and Enclave.

@apaosha & TheOutlander: I’ve never done this. After bombing the Citadel are all BoS patrols you meet in DC and Rivet City hostile?? That’s a hella-lot more enemies to deal with. I’ll bet fighting EC BoS also makes Rivet City guards hostile as well…

 

What I never understood though, if I kill an Enclave soldier, and I collect the armour... if I then sold that armour to the BOS, why can't they use it to help defeat the enclave. Story loophole there. I kind of expected the BOS to start sporting Enclave armour after I blew up the Enclave.. twice.

~Mal

Agreed. At least the Outcast Casdin in vanilla Fallout is smart enough to make the change (he stops using Enclave armor in FWE). Hope that Fallout 4 has us back on the East Coast and that the game devs fixed that loophole and give the EC BoS more common sense.

 

i'd most likely end up leading a gang of very loyal raiders. to help me about my way in the crazy mixed up fallout world..

See now, evilmicevil is making sense. You can kind of do this by mezzing & collaring and then freeing raiders everywhere. And if you want “Raiders” to follow you around, well, there’s Clover, Jericho, and Butch for sure. Charon will go regardless (though secretly he probably wants to blow your head off ala “Sayonara Ahzrukhal” style). And if you play it right Sticky, Red, and Shorty will don some Raider garb and play. It might be fun on an "evil" playthrough… you shoot someone and then they all say in unison, "better him than me!" ;D

If Enclave wasn't so hostile to begin with I would have considered joining them ...

I would side with the Enclave in a heartbeat, given a choice. It's a shame they're hostile by default, like Raiders.

I'd probably side with the enclave…

… up should they refuse to cooperate in the first place. If the Enclave are cooperating…

I'd side with the Enclave…

I try to support Enclave as much as it's possible (with a cheat I make them friendly). Wish I could join them normally, get new dialogues and quests.

Enclave. Better tech and supplies

they only lost because they had no proper leader in the fields ...

…… I would join the Enclave, they might be a facist government, but hey, if you're living on a post apocalyptic country, let's face it, a military government until things stabilize again is the best form of government.

I would probably side with the Enclave..

My method would have greater numbers of people under the Enclave flag and lead to a safer America. Then I would eventually have to deal with the factions out west…

All, even if ,like the original starting post reads, “this was real life,” the Enclave simply will not accept “tainted” people. That counts the Lone Wanderer …out. They’d never let the Lone Wanderer join them.

I’d probably hope to “have been born in the Enclave” too though. I think it’s highly likely they have the best “quality of life” in the Wasteland when they’re not out on patrol or engaged in an operation.

Maybe in Fallout 4 we can… I hope! Like you who said so, I think that the option to either join or “take over” the Enclave would’ve been a cool BUT, I *do* think the devs made the right call by not allowing the Lone Wanderer to join: it goes against canon to let “non-Enclave” join. Jeoshua sums it up best below:

Do you really think that Eden would want to find a cure for the Trog disease? He'd [Eden] just as soon destroy each and every one who is or could be infected. He's an emotionless machine who sees only disease for which the only real cure is death. He wouldn't agree to your plan there, because his goals aren't the unification of the country. They are the destruction of all those who are unclean. That includes your character, but you're useful so he'll let you think you can live for a little longer.

Jeoshua’s quote FTW!

 

I'd take over the Enclave…. Not one of the established Factions has Consistency or Organization enough to make the Wasteland a Place worth living in.

The Enclave wants to kill everyone, because everyone is a Mutant.

The BoS wants to save everyone, fair enough, sadly they are stuck up, snobbish and stupid.

The Outcasts are even more stuck up and stupid.

 

The Enclave at least has the Resources to make the Place livable and i would be the only one in the entire Wasteland who has the Will and the Intelligence to do so apparently; every other Agenda is plain moronic. They are too stupid to build Purifiers themselves, it's mind boggling.

Even after you finish broken steel and own all their base, the Enclave can’t be taken over. They’re a bunch of unconnected cells all over the place. Wipe out an Enclave patrol anywhere, then come back a week or so later (in vanilla) and guess what, there’s another Enclave patrol there ready to die fighting you.

The BoS are a bit uppity but they do take wastelanders into their ranks, and that’s a saving grace. I will agree with you that the BoS’s leadership is stupid though when it comes to strategic planning and resource management. Honestly, they remind me a lot of our (well, my) government here in the real world.

 

 

 

…The Enclave are homicidal maniac illuminati types under the guise of the Pre-war US government, the BOS are stuck-up technophile warrior sycophants and the outcasts are power armoured pricks.

Damn, you summed that up very well.

Then we have talon company…. I'd flatten all the f*ckers, bring in the mercs and caravan traders,

After Take It Back! this happens anyhow with the help of some “technophile warrior sycophants” **wink wink**

have moriaty shot

You mean to tell us you haven’t already? :o

, dump Eden's FEV stuff into the Vault 87 Air filters then caave in the entrances with explosives. and leave them to die out without the capability to reproduce.

Which reminded me that the entrance is already caved in … so how the hell are the Super Mutants getting out of Vault 87?? Not through Little Lamplight I’d venture…

Next come the raiders, … the pitt to contend with…., rivet city … rediscovering the lost art of manufacture.

And as a result we have a state sat on the ex-capital of the country, armed to the teeth and not filled with psychopaths, super-mutants or technophile idiots. Of course there's that satcom array up north with the stuck orbital weapons platform, that could be fixed.

Overall a well thought out plan that might work with the right leadership. I doubt the orbital weapons platform could be fixed if it’s a mechanical error on the satellite though.

 

Well, after playing through a bit more I am really tired of the stuck up attitude of the BOS. ..they treat me like I am inferior. I do not like it. I feel that the game lacked one slight part, and that was reputation. ..

~Mal

Keeping my fingers-crossed for Fallout 4 on the East Coast and with your idea here having made it to the game dev’s desk and implemented!

 

The enclave just wants to kill everyone that isn't them. I will not even begin to discuss how mindbogglingly stupid an idea this is if you want to rebuild the world(if you want power, then its a fine move)

Well, if it works… :thumbsup:

 

The BoS are seriously just lame. Elder Lyons' gang is fighting a losing fight but fails to recognize it as anything but a status quo

Yea… but who set the quo?? You lost me there…

The west coast HQ are a lot like the enclave, except instead of killing everyone else, they want to rebuild the world, except nobody else can join. And they cant even do THAT, since nobody likes them and they have to use all their resources on developing weapon technology, which they still fail at compared to the enclave.

No denying you’re right… New Vegas proved that, as much as I disliked it’s main storyline.

The outcasts are like the West Coast gang of BoS, except they're small, isolated, and too weak to withstand even on attack from the Lone Wanderer Level 20 who packed up a load of stimpaks.

Yea, which brings me to, “I hope the devs get their sh** together for Fallout 4 and make Power Armor actually powerful. I mean it looks great but is as about as useful as Star Wars stormtrooper armor if you’re fighting anything tougher than a Raider (and if it’s a Raider from FWE you might be screwed anyhow!). If they did it right people wearing power armor would be almost half as “tough” as a Super Mutant Behemoth…

 

 

The more I think about the factions in FO3 the BoS and Enclave and for that matter the raiders make no sense. Power is always based on land, resources and control of the population. Realistically these factions should be fighting for control of habitable land and control of settlements. You can almost imagine an Afghanistan or Somalia type situation going on. Warlords would be vying for influence and power, not just sitting in compounds collecting stuff. I mean how does either group feed itself and resupply itself? They control no population, levy no taxes, all they seem to due is expend resources without ever producing them. I would love to see a Fallout world with divided territories controlled by rival factions. You could have 5, 10 even 20 little (and big) warlords that each control a plot of land of varying size and influence. Some might be allies, others bitter rivals. Quest options would be monstrous as you choose sides (or don't).

You’re partially right, but if you have sea power then you basically have control of everywhere. Which is why the US is still the #1 super power on the planet even though we don’t have the largest army (US is #5 on that list).

You’re completely right on the land management/resources comment though.

 

 

Even Dave.. and his pathetic republic. ..

Hey don’t knock Dave – he has two wives! How cool is that?? :woot:

 

 

The Slavers give me an actual incentive to not kill every moron that picks a fight with me... being enslaved is pretty much the closest thing the Wasteland has to a 'jail' where raiders can be sent off to. If they were slightly smarter they could get some serious PR boosts by helping clear the Wasteland of Raiders. As such, I just wish there was an easier way for me to enslave Raiders than just one at a time…

Rossum is SO right. And I duno if this is a “bug” but when I go to Paradise Falls and collect/pick up a new collar I always pop into the plaza for a sec and when I run back out there Grouse gives me another collar. I did that until I had 15 collars. That never happened during vanilla though... (I play FWE)

The Trade Caravans are nice, I always try to make my way to Canterbury Commons to invest in them. A little more protection for them and organization and that would be nice.

True that! You’d think the EC BoS/RC alliance would’ve hired them to manage the water supply caravans and routes. Uncle Roe’s been doing that so long I’m fairly certain he could run that op with efficiency and you also wouldn’t have to listen to Scribe Bigsley’s whining…

I would start in the vault studying hard to become a robot repairman …

Dude, you are such a Mechanist!! You must have an IT job *wink wink*

Yeah... that one guy in the group who's always complaining to me about why I'm here and 'My Daddy' is making his life miserable...

A little off-topic but similar kinda… since I installed FWE, for some reason Garza ends up at that Super Mutant outpost near Rivet City when I fast travel there after I’ve cleared it out.. but I always mine those spots with bottlecap & frag mines.. so he always ends up dead....

Guess I won’t have to worry about giving up stimpacks or buffout for him later ... OOPs!!

 

well the pros to the brotherhood is that they try to help the peopel of the wastes which seems moral also the random raider or low level super mutant will pose no threat what so ever with power armor.

all so you have a giant robot on your side

cons: you have nothing to do really except stand around and maybe pop off a few rounds.

 

enclave pros: makes every one looks like neanderthals and your trying to re-establish the government which would be the logical chose and all thous scientist could probably make a giant robot if told to.

cons: would probably get caught up with documentation and that's no fun also a really determined guy being fallowed by a camera crew could murder not only you but the entire organization.

 

outcast pros: sweet paint jobs, more actively participated in the world, sweet simulations and probably other things.

cons: fight with siblings, black = hot suit, no giant robots for you unless you find one which you won't.

 

merc pros: well equipped and paid to murder people and seems intresting

cons:black = hot suit, morally bankrupt, your marks probably better equipped and has a bigger squad

 

regulator pro: awesome dusters and cowboy hats, after a few post-traumatic happens you could fool your self your in a very screwed up wild western with radiation.

con's: not well equipped or paid, fallowing a fruitless endeavor.

Sorry GETbacon, no giant robot. He fall down go BOOM. :P You must be a good person though because you list babysitting “the people of the wastes” in your pros. I actually put that in my “cons” list :sweat: Oh wait a minute! Then in you’re Merc pros you list “murder” as a benefit. You’re not a good person! :o :o :o

I agree w/ you on the Outcasts “being moere active.” If you can stand their berating, it’s kinda cool to walk on patrol with them in the wasteland “on safari.”

I like the Regulators even though they basically “work for free” as you said. “Fruitless endeavor” …hahaha I couldn’t have phrased it better! If you compare the effort needed to get one finger, they actually get paid a LOT less than even convenience store clerks!

 

 

I'd try to convince the Outcasts …to clean out Evergreen Mills, that northern SatCom array, and Wheaton Armory. [and] … Fort Bannister

The places with tech we all know they’ll be happy to loot ( I mean “recover”) but good luck getting them anywhere near Evergreen Mills. I guarantee they’ll look you in the face and say. “Not. Interested.”

 

Using the mapping device Reilly gave me, I'd map out as many Enclave camps as I could, and turn their locations over to the Outcasts so they could raid and ransack them.

You should work at Bethesda so these kinds of quests could be integrated into the game… It’d make a cool unmarked quest and it’d be even cooler to happen upon one of these raids by the Outcasts on the Enclave stragglers.

 

 

Well, i don't like the enclave or the BoS. Ones are freaking american nazies and the others are... "well intencionated" fanatics?

American Nazis? Come on now, play nice! ;-p

 

Can anyone tell me the definition of “intencionated?" … … … **silence**

OK Warnolo, you get a ‘D’ in English ;)

 

The regulators…. god they are the coolest faction in the game.

Well folks, we have a New Vegas fan here! Someone get that man a Desperado cowboy hat!

 

 

those silly Bethesda writers never thought to include a The Empire Strikes Back-like scenario in the game. The closest they come to that is the death of James, which is more akin to the death of Obi-Wan Kenobi than a massive defeat of friendly forces.

Well, more like Qui-Gon Jinn than Obi-wan actually ;)

BTW, you made some good points… let’s hope Bethesda’s reading your posts and using it for content in Fallout 4 ;D

 

… in the DLC Mothership Zeta we have a deathray and a giant alien ship that we control after it's finished, we can use it and destroy everything that angers us and we have a great place to retreat to incase we're overrun not the mention alien weaponry….

Don't Forget if you have Mothership Zeta you have a working Alien Mothership as a base basically a flying City that you can base your operations out of.

Well, in my opinion, Mothership Zeta would shuld come next…

I'd take over Mothership Zeta, and as Captain I would give it to the Brotherhood which would make me at least equal with Sarah Lyons due to the amount of tech it contains (I'm pretty sure the scribe could get those doors open to the rest of the ship-and I have a giant death ray)…

I would take everybody to the mothership....

Luckily I have an Alien Death Ray.

In the unmodded game, since the Lone Wanderer never ever uses the Death Ray again, and we don’t see the BoS or anyone with shock batons, disintegrators and atomizers, it MUST be assumed that for whatever reason the Lone Wanderer chose to let the “ship-wrecked” alien mothership above Earth and everything in it remain a secret, and so NO factions get access to it or any of its technology.

So, Mothership Zeta lovers…. dream on!

No offense intentioned, I just *really* feel MSZ ruins the game in some ways and is an example of really lazy devs slapping together a quick hodge podge DLC to get some more $$ for the Publisher (THANKS Bethesda :verymad: ). This DLC should never have been included in any Fallout game. It ruins any semblance of realism the game might’ve had. :down:

 

 

REPUBLIC OF DAVE FTW!

Nah, I'd rather live in Rivet City, working at the purifier, hunting mirelurks with my dart gun and railway rifle, then selling the meat.

Then get drunk each night in the Muddy Rudder.....

Or the Weatherly Hotel if I'd made quite a bit.

If I had to join a faction, then.... hm. Yeah, I would probably take over the Enclave as well.

See my Enclave comment above..

BTW u got that right on Republic of Dave… TWO WIVES baby! Yeaaah!!

If you’re going to Muddy Rudder, maybe you’ll get lucky with Trinnie :devil:

 

I find the outcasts actually much more relaxing to hang around with, if I could they'd be the faction I'd support….

Yea they are! Nothing like Wasteland Safari with some power armor **thumbs up!**

I also have a feeling Ashur, having similar feelings towards Lyons BoS, would be more eager to coöperate with the Outcasts, being able to supply a manufacturing industry as well as a healthy supply of suicide troops in exchange for the scientific and medicinal aid the Outcasts can offer to combat the Trog Syndrome.

Ashur probably dislikes the Outcasts more than Lyon’s BoS… because the Outcasts are what Lyon’s got away from: the orig BoS standards.

If Ashur met Lyons now, he’d probably like him. But since Ashur’s using Raiders and slaves, Lyon’s would probably be EXTREMELY disappointed in Ashur.

Anyhow, Outcast PA does look cooler with the red/black paint, I’ll give em that.

 

I think my forces would consist of me, dogmeat and perhaps a fellow scavenger. Our base would be a campfire under a monorail or in some sheltered ruin. There we'd sit, enjoying some freshly scavenged beer and speculate on how much the Brotherhood would pay for the box of Action Comix we dug out earlier. The dream would be to scavenge Fort Constantine and visit the White House, one day.

This guy doesn’t have the “I’ll take over the world ambition” that I’ve seen a lot here, but he sure has a lot of something else: happiness 

 

I use the Enclave for the officer hats and a tasty snack for my cannibals. They have the cleanest meat…

Remember what I was saying about Enclave folks’ having a better quality of life? See, here’s a fact to prove it! :blush:

 

Some people don't like that Casdin will put on Enclave armor when you turn it in for the tech rewards

Yea.. it makes sense that he would. BUT, since I installed FWE, he doesn’t do that anymore…

I did just notice last night while playing that after i blew up Raven Rock, i found an Enclave field post that had been overrun by raiders. I don't recall exactly where it was but the Enclave barriers had the usual raider spray paint and it was generally wrecked and had dead Enclave soldiers outside with a coupe raiders inside. It was funny seeing a raider in his raider armor, wearing a Tesla helmet and packing a .32 (no idea why he didn't pick up the plasma rifle).

He was probably too hungover or high to realize the trigger’s in the same location as other rifles ... Doh!

I got a neutral character challenge for you then.

A neutral character would be one with maxed skills and all non alignment based perks, that would mean using intelligence and perception to complete Wasteland Survival Guide, not joining the Brotherhood of Steel not using FEV, mediating peace between ghouls and Tenpenny Tower, telling Zimmer Harkness is dead then telling Harkness who/what is and have him kick Zimmer off the boat, forcing both The Mechanist and the Antangionizer to leave Canturbury Commons without violence and granting Harold's wish for death. A neutral character is a pain in the ass..…

In the interest of greated good you HAVE to kill all slavers in Paradise Falls and only help Fawkes not get him/her as a companion as well only Butch and Sergeant RL-3 will be ones allowed to accompany you. If you follows this with occasional karma rebalancing you can be a true neutral character inw hich neutral perks will be greatly optimized.

Skills have *nothing* to do with Karma. Same goes for SPECIAL. You’ll definitely want the Impartial Mediation perk though. How is joining BoS a Non-neutral move?? That doesn’t make any sense. Please explain.

I see how not using FEV is a neutral move, even though it’s “good” simply because it’s not wanton massacre via poisoning the CW population... in other words, more good than evil because it can be construed as self serving (which is very neutral).

For Tenpenny Tower, the neutral move is to side with the humans… because the LW is human. Three Dog’ll be pissed tho. Helping the ghouls nets you Good Karma which is definitely NOT neutral.

A neutral character would turn tell Harkness he’ll take care of his problem, get the plasma rifle, then turn him in getting Wired Reflexes (because you’ll gain Karma, then lose it).

During the Superhuman Gambit a real neutral character would stop one of them via speech win, gaining karma, then let the other one stay (and lose some karma).

Also, neutral characters let the slavers do their thing. And maybe even enslave a few people, like Raiders for example. GOOD characters wipe out Paradise Falls. If you don’t like what is being written here, it’s because you are a GOOD person. ;)

But think about this: here in the real world police have people locked up and those people are forced to labor. And not all of those who are locked up are guilty. Innocents have been imprisoned before. It happens more often than society is happy to admit.

 

Properly role-played Neutral characters can only get Fawks *right after* escaping Raven Rock and Paladin Cross during the initial meeting if the right speech choices are made, and no more after that if they ever are separated. That’s why I NEVER talk to Cross until after I’ve done ALL DLCs with no intention of ever going back and fast travel away from Raven Rock right after escaping until I’m ready to “permanently” recruit him.

Butch, RL-3, and Charon are your buddies all the time for obvious reasons. If you buy Clover once then Karma no longer matters cause that sex-kitten just wants to haul your junk around anyhow (turned evil by slavery and mental abuse is a different kind of evil). Jericho is the only truly evil companion (old habits die hard) and even so, I think he’s cool to have around.

 

I *always* play neutral characters. It just feels right.

 

small list of some [neutral] things:

For at end of MQ you can kill Autumn or let him live, choice is yours,

YOU may enter the purifer code or you can send Fawkes(as it's smartest choice) destroying or making Sarah do it is bad but you doing is partialy good but also for greater good.

You can ignore or kill Arkansaw, though he is just defending his town.

You may kill Moriaty or not, he's a evil male without a father though negative karma from killing him may be needed for karma rebalancing to stay neutral.

By my own rules you have to help the Brotherhood in that one area and all of them must survive however killing them afterwards is allowed since theirn useless and not really canon.

As a side requirement you must save the small forager ant colony from bigger ants, it's just plain awesome to have non enemy ants so save them.

Another requirement is giving out purified water isn't allowed, neutral means for the greater not single man and sicne your serving it no water for beggars.

Final requirement is you may not use the command console, not even if your stuck, save frequently and play the game like a hardass.

…

Killing Autumn is neither good nor bad if you are attacked first. If you make it a point to use diplomacy and not use violence, that is a “good” move. That it doesn’t result in Good Karma is a discrepancy.

ANY time diplomacy results in preventing bloodshed, this is a good karma move. Resorting to violence FIRST is more often evil for reasons that should be obvious to every human. Yes, it’s a precarious balance…

On that note, what if you are giving someone purified water so you “look good?” That makes it a selfish act as opposed to selfless. Is giving water then still “good?” The water beggar doesn’t give a mole rat’s ass if you’re doing it for kindness or not as long as they get their water. Anyhow giving water is an easy way to balance Karma if you enslave people a lot.

If you want to deal with Arkansas in a truly neutral way, arrest (enslave) him, then later let him free.

A selfless act of helping any creature, human or not (insects, for example) is a good act that merits Good Karma. Neutral people won’t bother unless they need a reason to “gain some Karma.”

Moriarity is a leech, but killing him for no reason is still evil. Even if someone bad mouths you and you kill them, that is an evil act. Any murder is very evil act. You should know this.

I know this is just game we’re talking about here but the thought of “doing good things” then killing people for no reason other than to “remain neutral” is the talk of someone who is deranged. No offense intended but that is God’s honest truth. I guess the word “fatal” is in your name for a reason ;)

And I agree with you wholeheartedly on not using the console to modify Karma. I only use it to Openteammatecontainer on my companions to save time wasted on their dialog.

Ahh geez, starting to feel in the mood for a pint of Kilkenny…

 

I will be starting my own faction Republic of Dave style. It would start as a small town raising brahmin herds and serve as a refuge to escaped slave/androids and ghouls.

Get more wives than Dave and live up to that WOLF in your name! :woot:

 

What people over here are forgetting is Rivet city ... the only place which can be setup as a proper base of operations with limited access..

I was curious about the opinion of everybody... conserning Maddy21 last post: he/she would join Rivet City. I obviusly went ape poo on the idea. What do you all think? If the Brotherhood Of Steel and RC went to war, who would win? Then the Enclave and RC? I think it's pretty obvious, but what do you think?

Straight up BoS would win. RC would be forced into a siege and they’d all eventually die from drinking river water. Sad really.

 

Oh yeah, forgot that bit- I do indeed like the T-45's design, tho I personally use the prototype medical armor from Old Olney, just to stand out a bit from the full-time brothers and sisters.

Same here bro! Cause I’m a pretty mercenary BoS member and like that it stands out different from the other PA. Not getting addicted to Morphine/Med-X is a nice touch as well.

 

Talon Company seems to be populated by suicidal morons and run by retards who are incapable of pattern recognition. They do have some nice equipment…

….guy running Talon Company is related to Zap Brannigan...

[story follows]

Oh my God this was a good read! Laughing out loud here got a half dozen heads poking into my cubicle. Kudos!

 

BoS is'nt focused on technology, they are focused on savig the people of the wastes.

Eden is evil in my opinion, he wants to infect the waters instead of clensing them.

Autumn, he's just crazy.

I’m pretty sure you know by now that the real, original BoS *is* focused on tech, and it’s just Lyon’s who wants to help the DC area.

Eden’s not evil, but the engineers who wrote it’s code sure were!

Autumn’s …yea, crazy, but at least he doesn’t want to kill *everyone* by putting the FEV in the water…

Well I just noticed I’m echoing Commander Oreo …

He wants to infect the waters because hes an emotionless robot.

Even Autumn agrees that that course of action is unacceptable. Good thing I have the abort codes with me

And yes, the BoS is focused on Technology. The Outcasts=Original Brotherhood keeping the original goal. The Elders out waste dislike Lyons

See?

 

{really looong wall of text}

I really wanted to read your post, but the complete lack of indentation or paragraph structure lead me to disregard it.

Good thing it wasn’t a resumé :wink:

 

Everyone is forgetting a faction that you can choose that free's you of ultimate loyal to anyone, and that is The Planet. I decided on my characters goals before I started and let them guide me. My character believed all humans had blown(up) there chance at life on earth and it was up to my cyborg agent of eco-extremist aliens to cleanse the planet of humans, and begin healing it.

 

I blew up Megaton (not good for the environment I know, but the ends justified my means), the let the ghouls into Tenpenny, then shot the ghouls. I then proceeded to exterminate every settlement I could, raider and wastelanders alike. The only wastelanders who I let live I enslaved and set to them to work building a recycling plant (RTS NW), gathering wreckage to be melted down at the my Steel Mill in The Pitt.

 

Morality is subjective.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

IF this were RL I would try to pull a Robin Hood, using my soldiers to prey on raiders and supermutants.

Now HERE is an example if someone who is deranged and Very Evil for sure!

 

 

The Enclave is fools. It's Vault was nothing but politicians, corporate fat cats, and the lackeys who were blindly loyal to them….

But they were (are) the cream of the crop in our society right? **light bulb illuminates**

Ahhhh…. So that’s why all these economic problems are so profuse right now…

Fiscal Cliff anyone?

 

The BoS? Worthless, for the most part. Sure, when they started, they had the right idea. Collect the remaining technology, catalog it, and discover how to rebuild it, so humanity has a fighting chance. They forgot about the humanity having a fighting chance part. Elder Lyons has begun to rediscover it, and Ashur is trying to rediscover it, but they've both forgotten the technology part, overall. They keep it to themselves, hoarding it. Sure, Ashur uses it to try to find a cure, but you don't see him teaching techs how to build the basic things that would make their disease-ridden lives a little more tolerable while he and his wife work on that cure. Lyons uses it to fight the supermutants, and protect...um...GNR. There's not a single member of the Brotherhood stationed in Rivet City, Megaton, or Canterbury Commons. To give a comparison, even the West Coast BoS stationed a single member of the BoS in The Den. At least they were paying attention to the people, even if they didn't have the firepower and manpower to help them there.

 

The Outcasts? Other than supplying me with a massive supply of Stimpacks (the merchants run out of caps, and then I'm left with piles of extra tech...so I sell it to Casdin for Stims), they're pretty crappy. Yet, oddly enough, they have a better presence out in the wastes, cleaning up psychos and monsters than the BoS does.

 

Even Sheriff Simms is a bit on the 'meh' side, since he's setting up a dynasty. (He's told his kid that he's the next sheriff-mayor already). In fact, I think Moira and Harkness are the only ones that I'd really say are worth anything. Moira, for all her lunacy, wants to help people, and is willing to try to find new ways, rather than just try to go back to the way it was...that caused it all in the first place. And Harkness, when he could have run, could have gone anywhere, done anything (android supersoldier with high-powered plasma rifle, and the additional combat skills of a pre-war sergeant? Yeah, he can do what he wants.)...however, he chooses to stay and guard Rivet City. Why? Because they're counting on him.

 

Three-Dog apparantly has quite the intel network set up (he reported on me visiting The Family less than 10 minutes after I did it), but wastes it. With that kind of precision, he should be informing the Regulators, BoS, and Outcasts where to strike. (Yes, the Outcasts would only be useful if you also told them there's tech inside).

 

For this reason, I side with the Protectrons in the museum. You know, the ones programmed to think they're the Founding Fathers? They at least have a vision that isn't made of pure selfishness and crap. That vision is where my plethora of energy weapons, and T-51b go. With a special emphasis on kicking the Enclave in the teeth. Don't want King George back, and I don't care if he calls himself Dick Richardson, John Eden, or Augustus Autumn.

On Simms… well, wouldn’t you? I sure do what I can to make sure my kids are going to be doing well in the future…

On these points you’re completely right and I couldn’t have phrased it better: BoS, Ashur, Outcasts, Moira, Harkness, and Three Dog (your notes on his super secret spy network are HILARIOUS by the way).

You’d make good drinking buddy… but I’d be too busy busting my gut to pull any girls…

 

So... ultimately, I'd go with myself. I'd take my power armour, repaint it stark white and then kill every goddamned thing I can find that believes "the betterment of humanity" in actual fact means "the betterment of humanity's taste". I'm sure I could convince a few wastelanders to join my crusade, especially if I offered them power armour to keep them safe.

 

So, yes. I'd set up my own armoured mercenary faction, trading technology with the Outcasts for supplies and keeping the streets safe for the Brotherhood, making them both indebted to me.

This is kind of what I do now, only I just use the Prototype Medic Armor.

So niccolo, how did you deal with The Family?

 

I would start by silently killing off major characters either by a long ranged snipers shot or a silent assassination while they sleep.Then in the disarray I would seize the power as all the factions are warring within themselves.

How’re you going to get the factions to war? If Lyon’s is dead, then Sarah takes over, and the chain of command goes all the way to the bottom – some unnamed initiate. This goes for all military style organizations as you know. City governments normally have the same thing.

…I would send kill squads into the city and kill anything thats not human(ghouls are the exception,but orders are no shooting until fired upon.) After that,I would go through and forcibly disarm the raiders.After theyre disarmed,they would be put to work and paid for it.Each family is allowed weps/armor/whatever they can scavenge.After the raiders are working,then comes Paradise falls.I would hire the slavers as a police force. Slaves would then be freed. …

Though you sound like a third world country head of state, it makes sense. Especially the organizing a police force part.

 

that's what I was thinking, you were face-to-face with "Eden", why didn't you fiddle around with it, and reprogram it to make YOU the President. Then you would have an army at your control, orbital strike capability, Chimeras and Virtibirds, plus Deathclaw controllers that could be potentially modified to be Supermutant controllers. Take over the Pitt (I did that myself, didn't need an army) and you have endless ammo supply, take over Purity and you have endless clean water, go down south and get the Tribals to mass-produce punga for you. Then build a big walled city, big as the capital wasteland. Get the BOS to come and administer it (they care about the people, afterall). Then you could turn your attention to grabbing all that futuristic tech from the Commonwealth.

 

Oh yes, megalomania, and if someone would like to make a mod to make that possible I would be very happy

You mean “delusions of grandeur.” **wink wink**

 

I'd probally hook up with the brotherhood of steel..but not the DC detachment. I'd sign up with the steel located in the west. … i have my own custom faction to..but since we are talking about a possible reality..there is no way i'd be able to organize something like that. Better off joining instead of creating an entire different faction.

And would you lend your caravan management and logistics expertise to them? I’m sure you could net a lot of caps that way. *thumbs up*

Oh …wait… I thought you were that guy from Canterbury Commons… my bad :sweat:

 

I'll rule this land. It'll be held by the one who's worthy to reach out and grasp it.

The Lone Wanderer! **thumbs up!**

 

I will just team up with the regulators and kill all of them son's o bitches. …

Kill them who??

 

The Pitt raiders are the only ones with both numbers and guns, not siding with them will have the the same result as not siding with the NCR in New Vegas.

The Pitt Raiders never leave the Pitt except for that one time they’re looking for Werner. And their population is whole lot smaller than you think. You can hang with them and get high on jet tho! :whistling:

Numbers I'll give you, but size alone is no measure of military might. Paladin Lyons swept through Pittsburgh, annihilating the raiders with only one significant casualty. Seems to me that power armor, heavy weapons, and most importantly, training are much greater factors in determining military strength.

You got that right! Training training training, and then a little more training! This is the military way *thumbs up*

 

… I would make my own faction. ….I'll also leave out mother ship zeta as it is kinda silly and arming a army with alien weapons would be way over powered.

First off. Armory. I have at any point, around twenty suits of fully repaired power armor (could be in the hundreds but caps are needed), which would make a well armored core for any army as for weapons. At a very early point in the game you can get a Fatman and mini-nuke's and at this moment I have one of every weapon in the game (plus most from quite a few mods) at full repair which I could easily expand in to the hundreds, while maintaining good relations with whichever faction ruled The Pit would maintain a fair amount of ammunition. Now for a base any of the old military base's would due at least until I formed the core of my military but for this example lets say Fort Constantine. As for feeding, clothing, and medicine I'll cover that in my "Economy" section.

 

Second. Recruitment. It would be simple to raise a army as every halfwit in the waste seems to be able to do it. So in this example I'm assuming I sided with the BoS and wiped out the enclave. First I would simply make the core of my army out of the followers you normally gather, with the offer of safety, shelter, and moderate living conditions which would attract at least a few people, as well as any raiders, ex-enclave, outcast, BoS and so forth who would join me, which some surely would as you are pretty much a legend at this point forming my core army, traders, farmers, hunters, and more out of those who join.

 

Third. Economy and supply. By this point I'd be growing my base from a abandon military base to a makeshift city. Assuming you completed "The Superhuman Gambit" and funded the roving traders it would be easy to get them to add a extra stop on there way through the waste. I could then acquire water from the water caravans however they'd probably demand you provide some security on at least the caravans going to your city, which would be a minor but necessary drain on my military. As your force's would be in the area anyways if you completed "point lookout" you could also acquire punga fruit which has the added effect of removing radiation. Early on I would also start a recon/hunting group to patrol my borders and acquire some "edible" (I use that very loosely) food and possible start a small farming operation which seems possible judging by point lookout and FONV farms

 

Forth. My faction and the waste. Other then talon company most factions are friendly with me. I could possible influence the BoS to provide a small guard by giving them a small area within my territory for a outpost as I have also done quite a bit of work for the regulators I could probably influence them to send a small group to my "city" and form a way point or outpost. Having great relations with most groups in the waste my faction would be generally welcome or at least neutral with all major settlements.

 

Fifth. Technology. In order to preserve and ultimately improve technology I would invite the most competent of the wasteland and supply them with all they need to do what no one seems to be able to do and that is ultimately improve technology.

 

Sixth. This isn't so much a step as something I'd implement from the beginning. Governing and conquering the wasteland. At some point I would have a large force and many allies allowing for the possibility of multiple city's, and at some point my faction could compare to the NCR in size. As for governing I would use more of a Greek city state or a outright empire style.

 

Seventh. My character. My stats are. 6 strength, 7 perception, 6 endurance, 8 charisma, 9 intelligence, 3 agility, 1 luck and of course increasing them by one for bobble heads. As I generally rely on knowing my enemies are there and then overwhelming them with my normally high technology armor and weapons while keeping them in good repair and maintaining large ammunition reserves through barter, and healing through any damage rather then avoiding or soaking damage up. But what I see as a well rounded character would also make a good leader by default.

 

I left out a few things such as warring with talon company (which is sure to happen as I wouldn't hire them beyond the early days) and destroying the super mutants but over all it seems it would and probably could work but seeing as this is anywhere from a few years up to twenty year plan plenty can go wrong.

Man, were you taking an entrepreneurship course when you wrote that post? That’s one of the best business plans I’ve seen for the Wasteland so far. And I agree wholeheartedly with you on that fiasco called, “Mothership Zeta.”

 

For all their advantages, the Enclave has accomplished nothing. Their plan for the future is pants-on-head stupid. They tried to steal my dead parent's legacy. They want to kill everyone I've met since leaving the Vault because racism. They're the same people who blew up the world with their shoddy leadership in the first place.

I can see why people might support the Enclave, because if they were sane, they could do a lot of good. They're not sane, though.

 

Lyon's Brotherhood has fought a two decade long war against Super Mutants. They have the relative goodwill of Rivet City, the largest settlement, and enough martial might to deal with Val 87, Paradise Falls, and Evergreen Mills. I think their leader's daughter (and future heir) kind of likes me. Why, with a little bit of guidance, they might actually make the Capital Wasteland be not the worst place in existence anymore.

See everyone, out hero The Lone Wanderer can’t join the Enclave. And he’s got a good point on Sarah Lyons… which got me thinking about which faction I’d join again…

 

For the record this is not just the longest post I've ever written, but also the longest post I've ever seen in my life. And I just noticed... the Windows 7 lecture is done! :laugh:

[DavidYokosukaJapan]

Amazing this topic is still getting posts after a year of being up. Thanks everyone!

It's a great topic! I'm surprised there weren't more like it.

 

On that note and after reading EVERYONE's post I kind of changed my mind. I still think the best thing is to do is join/help Lyon's BoS.

But after that the plan is to go rescue Red from German Town Police HQ (but never take her back to Big Town), meet up with Sydney in the National Archives (but never retrieve the Declaration of Independence), get Clover out of Paradise Falls...

 

Then we all move to Oasis and do the happy, hippy life thing :wub:

Free love for all and we'll repopulate the wasteland! :yes:

[Talwyn224]

@ DavidYokosukaJapan - I really enjoyed reading through your very well crafted replies to the myriad of posts in this topic. I just have to ask though: slow work day hmm? :thumbsup: Ahem...

 

 

Back on topic - A while back I put up a topic called 5 Years later - 2281 in which I outlined how I saw life and history progressing after the events of FO3 had concluded by using the "voice" of 3-Dog as a recap of what's gone down.

 

In regards to the topic though: the Enclave are a bunch of idiots who despite all their obvious advantages like Vertibirds [air-superiority appears to count for nothing in 2277 for some reason?], having the best equipped & armed force in the CW, they somehow spectacularly fail to win. A*s-hats, every single one of them, including Eden. So just for sheer incompetence they deserve to get Darwin Awards and be removed from the Gene Pool. I believe that Eden is being self referential in one of his "fire side chats" speeches and it's this quote which sums up the Enclave perfectly:

 

"How did your leaders allow the most powerful nation on Earth...to die? The answer is really quite simple. Incompetence. Incompetence at the highest echelons of power. We put our trust, our faith, in halfwits. Our intrepid leaders had everything they wanted: power, wealth, prestige. It made them lazy, America. Oh yes, and laziness breeds stupidity."

 

Right there you have the essence of the Enclave. They ARE still the government of America - and just like war, nothing ever changes. They are the inheritors of the mess their forefathers created and they still manage to completely bugger things up. So yeah... dirt naps for all of them. So siding with this bunch of clowns is not an option if you have any sense at all. They've had 200 years in which to rebuild America, all safely tucked away in secret bases across America yet they get wiped out on the West Coast in 2242 and get theirs a*rses kicked again in 2277/8. As far as an evil faction goes, the raiders at Evergreen Mill appear to be better lead and organised than the Enclave. :rolleyes:

 

Ok, moving on... I support the CWBoS as at least they are trying to make the place better but you'd think that after 20+ years of battling Super Mutants in the ruins of DC with all their advantages of Power Armour, advanced weapons, training etc, you'd think they'd have mopped up nicely by then hmm? But sadly... due to whatever MacGuffin the games writers/designers have come up with, they're only just clinging on and it takes the LW to save the day. Alright then, since the LW pretty much single handily manages to secure the Purifier, deal with the Enclave at the air base, sorts out things up at the Pitt and opens up a potential new region for investigation at Point Lookout then the LW should be put in charge. Or at least become the real power behind the "throne" so to speak.

 

In my 3-Dog recap, I had the LW broker a peace between the Outcasts and BoS by making Casdin an offer too good for him to refuse. Now I can see you weren't thrilled by Mothership Zeta but you can still give him FireLance in the vanlilla game which blows off his socks. Now add in Vault 112, a fully intact vault that has multiple VR pods in which the Operation Anchorage sim can be run on... ahem... instant army anyone? Also, once you include all the loot that you get from the Enclave in the form of Power Armour and weapons, well you've got the material now to equip your newly trained force, or if not that, give the sweet toys to the BoS and outcasts and hand over the old suits of T-45d to the newbies.

 

Next, get the various factories that dot the CW either working again or salvage them for whatever working tech you can get from them. The few that immediately spring to mind are the Corvega Factory, the Nuka-Cola bottling plant, the Robot repair factory up at Canterbury Commons, the Robco place new Ten Penny Tower to name but a few. Once these places are up and running you can begin to reboot industrialization in the CW.

 

After wiping out Talon Company, relocate Reillys Rangers to Fort Bannister and get them to train light infantry/scouts for your new army. Again you'll have lots of gear to equip your new recruits with by just looting the bodies of Talon company mercs you've wiped out [i go for head shots so as not to damage the armour :tongue: ]

 

With the newly combined force of the BoS & Outcasts, establish a base of operations at Fort Constantine. You want to get a hold of that dam quick as there are quite a few nuclear weapons stored there which means technically you could recover the nuclear material and use it as a power source instead.

 

Vertibirds - the enclave made a habit of parking Vertibirds at various locations in the CW. The LW laughed and killed all the Enclave idiots that were around the choppers and took the keys of these nice new shiny choppers from their rapidly cooling dead hands and quickly got them into the hands of the BoS. I think you find at least 6 or 7 places in which the Enclave set up Landing Zones with parked Vertibirds so you'd have at least half a dozen or so as your little airforce. Now, once you have them, effectively you're the most powerful player in the region. Death from above baby! [Que the Ride of Valkyries music :devil: ]

 

Now you have a force of Air-mobile Power Infantry with Gatling laser gunships... why oh why did the Enclave lose? :blink: ... but I digress...

 

 

Vault 101 would be open for business despite what the designers intended. Vault 87 would be sealed completely with detonations of multiple mini nukes, The National Guard Depot and Wheaton Armory would also become bases for the CW Army, the Pitt would be scourged again with Werner being executed for failing to make any progress. Sarah Lyons is placed in charge there along with a decent sized force to make sure the steel keeps being made. Point LookOut becomes a farming community, harvesting Punga fruit to be sold throughout the wasteland.

 

The traders the LW funded become a consortium much like Crimson caravans, expanding their range and profitability now that manufacturing and agriculture have returned to the CW.

 

 

In all, the LW [well the one I play anyway] follows a "good" path, occasionally being ruthless and pragmatic but more often then not, does the 'good" thing.

 

Oh btw, another neutral option to deal with Roy Phillips and TenPenny Towers; do nothing. Leave Roy and his ghoul friends to rot down in the tunnels as they never come back to harass TPT anyway and you can still go in and trade with Gustavo plus blow off TenPenny's head once he puts the hit out on you for being a good guy. And there is no karma penalty for doing nothing.

 

Personally if the residents of TPT don't want ghouls as their neighbors, why should they have them foisted on them?

 

Actually I think the TPT quest is one of the few examples in FO3 where doing the "good' thing by being diplomatic and convincing the residents to let the ghouls in then finding out that the ghouls massacred them all afterwards, is utterly hilarious! The road to hell is often paved with good intentions so they say.... :devil:

 

 

"Ok Niffty America... old 3-Dog's gonna play you a little song that fairly well sums up what our Savior, the one, the only Lone Wanderer from Vault 101 has been doing...."

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2RVZqRpnw8

Edited February 3, 2013 by Talwyn224

[DavidYokosukaJapan]

@ DavidYokosukaJapan - I really enjoyed reading through your very well crafted replies to the myriad of posts in this topic. I just have to ask though: slow work day hmm? :thumbsup: Ahem...

Good morning Talwyn! Heh yes you are absolutely CORRECT! It was a *very* slow work day that day... got that Windows 7 training done though despite Charlie Brown's teacher being the lecturer... :thumbsup:

 

"Air-mobile Power Infantry with Gatling laser gunships" ... oh man, the sound of that just makes me droool!! :teehee:

 

Amazingly accurate assessment of the Enclave. It's sad that they are as misguided as they are and also cannot seem to change... so much potential gone to waste :confused:

 

Agree w/ you on Tenpenny Tower as well. Honestly just leaving everything as-is *is* the best solution. But I'm a mission-hog and have an obsessive-compulsive need to finish every quest... :pinch:

 

Like I mentioned in the reply to your other (brilliant!) post, though a reconcilliation between the Outcasts and East Coast BoS would be the optimal "happy end" to the scenario... I have to ask ... would the Outcasts really do that?

 

They are zealous about "sticking to the primary mission" and furthermore the Outcast's attitude towards wastelanders is remarkably similar to the common Japanese reaction to "gaijin" (For anyone out there who doesn't know this word, it means, "anyone not Japanese"):

The Outcasts view anyone who's 'not them' as uneducated, low-life, second-class citizens not worthy of bothering with.

 

I honestly think that the Outcasts split from Lyon's group split because a majority of Outcasts despise wastelanders, and could not forgive Lyons compassion towards them and helping them while also deviating from the Brotherhood's primary mission. It was this "perfect combination" (for lack of a better term) that drove them to separate.

So yes.. it appears that Outcasts are classists in the extreme, and just as narrow-minded as racists when it comes to the matter of dealing with others.

 

Sad because they are powerful, well organized and equipped, and their armor looks cool (cooler than Brotherhood's IMHO) ... so it seems a bitter waste that they really are "bad guys" (albeit non-aggressive ones) in the whole scheme of things when it comes to the 'big picture.'

 

And now, a message to all you out there who chose "Outcast" ... ask yourself: are you classist at heart...? Discriminatory? Prejudiced? Narrow-minded? Racist maybe even?

 

And is that who you want to be?

[Talwyn224]

Just following on in regards to the Outcasts -

 

I've always thought that as a faction, well at first they make sense but once you understand them further, get to learn more about them and inter-act with the, their logic and resondetre start to fall apart.

 

They broke away from Owen Lyons specifically because he started to help the wastelanders around him. Casdin makes quite a specific point about this saying how the old man had effectively lost it and that Casdin would like to see Owen Lyons put up against a wall and shot. They make no qualms about despising wastelands as evidenced from the various snide comments you get from them as you encounter their patrols in the wasteland. Yet they're perefctly willing to act your help in acquiring technology such as laser rifles etc plus supplies on their behalf in exchange for ammo, stim packs etc. So at some basic level, they acknowledge that the need to interact with the outside world if they are to survive. Next inconsistency is when you encounter them in the Operation Anchorage DLC. They accept your help because your wearing a Pipboy. They tried to cut one off one of the Gary clones but still couldn't get it to work for the VR pod? And it's these guys that are supposed to be the masters of pre-war tech eh? Ohhhkay.... :armscrossed: Actually there is one piece of consistency in the way Sibley reacts after you complete the VR sim by basically attacking you, Protector McGraw and Scribe Olin. this tracks true with how the Outcasts should behave. They despise all wastelanders and see them as less than human, only just marginally better than ghouls etc.

 

So even though you encounter them before the BoS, even though you help them unlock the VR simulator, they are still a pack of judgmental ass-hats that end up being on the wrong side of history. It's a pity really and on my next play through, I'm just going to kill them all and take over their base :devil:

 

oh the other glaring inconsistency is that they don't bother to eradicate the nest of raiders that are literally just up the road from them. :dry: I just never understood this at all. Why on earth would a group like the Outcasts tolerate having a hostile force, even one as pathetic as the raiders, being so close to their base of operations? It makes just no sense!

 

 

Ok, and now back to our regularly scheduled program....

 

This is W.A.R... Wasteland Ambient Radio.... coming to live across the rad infested places that just make you glow green with every clickitly click of that geigar counter.

It's just like our slogan on our building says, we never change because we all know that WAR, WAR never changes.

And neither should you folks!

Unless your suffering from... unnhh.. ghoulification... eeecchh.. then you're screwed! Hahaha...

 

Here's one for a wastelander who's out there in a far off place....

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNsbbORorfk

 

:P

I couldn't resist it David :wink: