Maxwell the Fool Posted March 18, 2010 Author Share Posted March 18, 2010 Assuming that report is true, a large portion of my argument has disintegrated. I'm still against the amount of power this gives the government, and I'm curious how they managed to save this much money....... This bill may be a good thing yet....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retribution Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 What a wonderful bill! It doesn't raise taxes, gives everyone healthcare, and since it lowers health care premiums by three thousand percent, people will even get raises from their employers! http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/03/healthcare-premiums-will-decrease-3000.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo 2 Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 @RetributionYou've convinced me. I am now an Obama convert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trandoshan Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 What a wonderful bill! It doesn't raise taxes, gives everyone healthcare, and since it lowers health care premiums by three thousand percent, people will even get raises from their employers! WOW RELLY? GO HELTHCARE WOOT!!!!!!!!!!!! Obvious crap.... I like the sarcasm though! Kudos @ Retri, and thanks for the article! The government cant be 'that' much competition to other health-care insurance providers. I actually would probably barely see a 2-3% decrease in premiums maximum, and that isn't from government competition. Because the public is now forced to have health insurance (This is what the bill was saying during the beginnings of Obama's UVHC.), the private companies would benefit from increased profit due to increase of consuming. Yes, they can force you to have health-care Insurance the same way they can force you to have car insurance. However, government health-care options creating competition? Nah.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retribution Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 @RetributionYou've convinced me. I am now an Obama convert.Good! We must all follow our Messiah, because he always knows what's best for us. We're too stupid to decide things for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo 2 Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 I am glad these young men are inspired and do not want to be lawyers or Wall Street paper chasers, but they didn't need Obama to come to those conclusions. If you watch long enough ObamaCare becomes the focus of the cadence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
species5478 Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_PX5L_v_7I People don’t seem to understand, that part of the reason why we’re in this financial crisis, is because of the cost of health care. If we don’t something now, don’t be surprised when things get worst. And what about the human cost? Our fellow Americans are PEOPLE. Living, breathing human beings. heath care for all shouldn’t even be discussion. It should be a given.Hawaii, and (Minnesota?) have universal health care. They’re cost are down, and everyone is happy. We should follow their example.And by the way…How is paying for health care wrong? I served in the United States Marine Corps, and was nearly killed twice defending my homeland. I don’t have health care. Is that right? It seems that many of my fellow Americans are trying to finish what the Insurgents started, by telling me that I don’t deserve health care, because I can’t pay for it.And if you have health care, but lose it because you developed a fatal cancer that your Insurance Company doesn’t want to pay to treat, I’m sure you’d think twice about universal health care, when your life is on the line. And I love the Independent mindset…because nobody in America is truly Independent. This country works best when we work together. There were no “individuals” in the Corps. We worked as a group, for the benefit of a nation. Had I tried to be an individual in the military, on the field, I would have been killed. Right now, individual Americans are getting killed, by insurance companies. That’s wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. We have to work together. If the enemy is an insurgent, insurance company, or members of congress, the only way to evoke a change, is by standing together.By the way: Calling Obama a socialists, or a communist, is not only wrong, but it’s derogatory in all the worst ways. True communists, and socialists, like Hitler or Fidel Castro, would kill you for speaking against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balagor Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_PX5L_v_7I People dont seem to understand, that part of the reason why were in this financial crisis, is because of the cost of health care. If we dont something now, dont be surprised when things get worst. And what about the human cost? Our fellow Americans are PEOPLE. Living, breathing human beings. heath care for all shouldnt even be discussion. It should be a given.Hawaii, and (Minnesota?) have universal health care. Theyre cost are down, and everyone is happy. We should follow their example.And by the way…How is paying for health care wrong? I served in the United States Marine Corps, and was nearly killed twice defending my homeland. I dont have health care. Is that right? It seems that many of my fellow Americans are trying to finish what the Insurgents started, by telling me that I dont deserve health care, because I cant pay for it.And if you have health care, but lose it because you developed a fatal cancer that your Insurance Company doesnt want to pay to treat, Im sure youd think twice about universal health care, when your life is on the line. And I love the Independent mindset…because nobody in America is truly Independent. This country works best when we work together. There were no individuals in the Corps. We worked as a group, for the benefit of a nation. Had I tried to be an individual in the military, on the field, I would have been killed. Right now, individual Americans are getting killed, by insurance companies. Thats wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. We have to work together. If the enemy is an insurgent, insurance company, or members of congress, the only way to evoke a change, is by standing together. By the way: Calling Obama a socialists, or a communist, is not only wrong, but its derogatory in all the worst ways. True communists, and socialists, like Hitler or Fidel Castro, would kill you for speaking against them. Better words on this subject were never spoken. Good luck with the final voting in the senate? tomorrow. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo 2 Posted March 20, 2010 Share Posted March 20, 2010 (edited) *sighs*If a government takes things from people who have worked for them and gives them to others who didn't work for them to level the playing field that is Social Justice and Socialism and Obama is in fact for Social Justice. If you want me to dig around and find sound bites so you can hear it from Obama's own mouth I will do that. They are all over the net. My government has two duties, tax and defend and that's it. I'm already paying enough taxes to support freeloader government programs. I don't need to pay for another program I don't believe in. If ObamaCare is so great why isn't there a proposal to make the funding a tax deductable dontation? Give corporations and individuals who pay into the fund tax credits to offset what is already in place. Why instead is it being forced down the throats of people like me who don't want it? That is Social Justice and Socialism. EDIT: And if Pelosi pushes the bill through with Deem and Pass it really WILL be Socialism. Edited March 20, 2010 by Kendo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxwell the Fool Posted March 20, 2010 Author Share Posted March 20, 2010 As usual, Kendo beat me to it. However, I disagree with what I consider to be a major portion of his statement: the role of government. I believe that the role of government is to protect our NATURE given rights. No matter your religion (trying to avoid locking here.....) you can clearly see that if you put 3 people in a room, with no order or government, put to their own devices, they retain their rights. If one of them hits another then it's plain who is in the wrong and who should be punished (right to a reasonable expectation of safety.... also known as the right to live). You can find an example with almost any one of the rights that we think we have. The government is now saying that healthcare is a right. If you were in that room would you have a reasonable expectation of health? Free health? No, of course not. If someone in that room had basic first aid knowledge and you broke your foot then you would owe them a favor, just like I would owe them money if I went to the ER with a broken foot. So, if that right is not given by nature/whoever then why is it a right? Because the government wants to give us that right. If government can give us rights then why can't it take them away? Exactly, this would set a precedent for the government to take away our rights. Not that they haven't already done that (second and tenth amendments). @Species: You mentioned to states with universal health care. What about Massachusetts? Which is now going ACTUALLY bankrupt, not the "we can get loans and keep things running" bankrupt, but the "well...... I guess we could secede to Portugal and they'd sustain us" bankrupt. The health care plan (which the national model is based on) has led this state into utter ruin. The only reason they haven't collapsed yet is the bailouts, which propped them up on the edge of a cliff while simultaneously raising the cliff, so when Massachusetts does fall it'll be certain to shatter? Anyone say Greece? Iceland? California? Socialism (and this bill is socialist, the taxes only hit those making 200k plus, you know, those business owners that are now starting to hire again, wonder how that'll effect their staff? ;) ), doesn't work, we've seen it fail time and again! Oh, and (preemptive strike) don't use recessions and depressions as evidence of capitalism failing. Look up the "Capitalist Wave Theory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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