European Union

[Aurielius]

A United States of Europe will occur, cos you have no (peaceful) alternative at all, neither economically nor strategically. And - I do not see that European culture would differ from each other for more than a yota. Moreover, the German nationalistic facet, to pick up your argument, is as old as the event in the Frankfurt Paul's Cathedral, some 160 years or just five generations. That's not enough to fill an egg cup with special requests from the past, the dark age. You know the past, guess so.

@Surenas

Great Britain does have alternatives strategically, it possesses the 'special relationship' with the US military and is a founding member of NATO. Britain is considered a 'most favored nation' as a trading partner. We are quite happy to have a close relationship with a sovereign Great Britain, in fact we prefer it. Britain has been a trustworthy ally for most of the last century.

EDIT: GinnyFizz covered the same ground with a more eloquent version than mine, so I deleted the second half of my reply in favor of her response..

Edited March 27, 2010 by Aurielius

[Kendo 2]

You seem to have learned absolutely nothing from the bloody history on European ground, being unaware of the new phenomenon of networked globalization.

Guess we have to let the eternal unwilling people go when it comes to a final decision for a construct all nationalists are afraid of. An exodus is not that new...

 

FLAMER. Doesn't warrant a response more than that.

 

EDIT: Bben has posted rules and guidelines about the debate threads.

Edited March 26, 2010 by Kendo 2

[JimboUK]

Their response to the peoples of France and Hollands no vote to the Constitution tells us all we need to know about about the E.U, instead of listening to the people they renamed it and pushed it through anyway.

 

Any union of independent states that only looks after its own interests is doomed to failure.

 

As is any union bought together against the will of it's people.

[ginnyfizz]

You seem to have learned absolutely nothing from the bloody history on European ground, being unaware of the new phenomenon of networked globalization.

Guess we have to let the eternal unwilling people go when it comes to a final decision for a construct all nationalists are afraid of. An exodus is not that new...

 

But it is getting a response nevertheless.

 

Surenas, one of my Grandfathers was carried from the battlefield in Flanders on the 11th of November 1918, unconscious so he had no idea for weeks that an Armistice had been signed. This man had VOLUNTEERED on the day WWI was declared and walked SIX MILES just to enlist. By the time round 2 came around, he was too old to fight, but he DID instead spend a lot of time and money helping smuggle his fellow Jews out of Nazi occupied Europe. And to his dying day he would from time to time weep over the horrors he witnessed and learned of. A proud Englishman, but an extreme Nazi type nationalist? How DARE you?

 

Oh, and my other Grandfather and his eldest son, Ampleforth, Oxford, the RAF...and very dead, within two weeks of each other during WW2. So I never knew either of them.

 

I require no lessons from you, Surenas, on the consequences of extreme nationalism. The above is a perfect example of why we DON'T need a United States Of Europe.

[Balagor]

And we will never have a U. S. E.

I said it before and I´ll say it again, we are too different in our cultures, and hurrey for that. We should do all we can to preserve what is left of our cultures. It is bad enough what has allready died out, of little villages and communeties all over Europe.

I would not like to see a monotone Europe, where all differenties have been wiped out. It has been tried before. I prefere a Europe sparkling with culture and differenties, so I can feel I am in Italy, France, UK, whatever, when I go there.

One more thing that that would prevent it from happening is, tradition for religion. Some countries have very strong traditions, while others like the scandinavian countries have none.

I still think we have a very big task just to keep it where it is, making business together, and make that easier. Common curency, common costum rules, common VAT rules, and common police, because we got common crime.

[ginnyfizz]

Very wise words indeed. There is as you say, a strong secularist tradition in the Scandinavian nations, and something of a division between broadly Protestant Northern Europe (apart from Ireland that is), Catholic Southern Europe and Orthodox Eastern Europe in terms of religious culture alone. Coming from a long line of English recusant Catholics I am something of a maverick of course! Now whilst I do not condone religious sectarianism - the British Isles alone have seen too much bloodshed on those grounds, some of which I have witnessed first hand, and most nations of Europe can say the same - any attempt to subjugate the varied traditions under one giant Euro-homogeneous umbrella would actually PROVOKE sectarian strife.

[Balagor]

Very wise words indeed. There is as you say, a strong secularist tradition in the Scandinavian nations, and something of a division between broadly Protestant Northern Europe (apart from Ireland that is), Catholic Southern Europe and Orthodox Eastern Europe in terms of religious culture alone. Coming from a long line of English recusant Catholics I am something of a maverick of course! Now whilst I do not condone religious sectarianism - the British Isles alone have seen too much bloodshed on those grounds, some of which I have witnessed first hand, and most nations of Europe can say the same - any attempt to subjugate the varied traditions under one giant Euro-homogeneous umbrella would actually PROVOKE sectarian strife.

 

My goodness, I did not even think of that, even though I have heard it in the dayly news all through the -70´s and -80´s. After a few years of disagreement all Europe could turn out to be a battlefield like the one IRA held in Ireland and UK. Just another argument that we will never have a USE

[Skaargoroth]

Or maybe, just maybe it will be forming a MJ12 from Deus Ex. :whistling: But in all seriousness, seeing EU split in half because of religion is a possibility.

[hoshi23]

the european union is fine. who would want to go back into the middle ages? surely theres are things that always can be made better and that ever will be so.

 

personally am quite content aslong poeple retain their own style adding to the whole.

a healthy mix is what makes run the show.

 

now as far as world politics go. devine love is the only way. anything else is ment to break apart once again. i dont choose to know anything else.

 

may the force be with you. :wink:

[ginnyfizz]

Problems and conflicts in Europe date from far more recent times than the Middle Ages, hoshi23. I think it is a little wide of the mark to suggest that the European Union is fine, it clearly isn't, not for everyone.