Boomers/BoS/Desert Rangers expanded

[DoctorKaizeld]

i edited my previous comment because i felt that came across too poorly. im not 'butt hurt' its just you are not using fallout facts, your using real life facts. for example in the fallout universe the states exact shapes are not at all the same. this is because there is no way to actually see where you are until you find a land mark that is labeled on your map.

 

next i didnt mean the entire Mojave i was refering to the territory around NV and felt that was implied.

 

the Rangers only joined the NCR and fought for the NCR because of the treaty they signed, that treaty was broken when the NCR lost Vegas (their only foot hold in Nevada.) they would never just up and leave the place they grew up in, fought and died for, and raised their families because their allies got screwed in a deal gone bad. (already stated this, but it is still valid) the Rangers would stay in force in Nevada. its not deserting its simply leaving because the NCR failed to hold their side of the deal.

 

when i refer to Rangers i am implying Nevada Rangers not NCR Rangers in general. not sure if you knew this but the NCR already had Rangers of their own prior to the deal. the Nevada Rangers just made them better.

 

the Nevada Rangers are NOT actually NCR military, they're only allies who are training the NCRs rangers. the reason they are treated as NCR military personnel is because of publicity and formality. the Rangers signed a deal with the NCR to join IF the NCR could defeat the Legion and hold Nevada. the NCR didnt so the deal was off the Rangers are no longer tied to the NCR.

 

also not sure if you realized it, but you are not discussing this at all. dont know if you realized it, but you are stating everthing you say as 100% fact and no one else is right. that is why i am getting annoyed.

[Degby1]

I didnt realise there was an "Indepedent New Vegas" mod in the works. If there is one being produced then fair play to you. In my playthrough I nuked both the NCR and Legion, Killed Caesar, Lanius, Vulpes. General Lee tasted a bullet too and I didnt bother saving Kimball, so effectively all the main command structure, aside from Colonel Moore and Tsu, got merked.

 

I also blew up the Securitron army as i never trusted any robot, especially given that Yes Man plotted the players death, f*#@ed Benny over and then found a new programme update to become more "assertive". House gotta chop in da bludclaart too so now I own the Lucky 38 and use the "Run the Lucky 38" mod which makes sense fighting for an independent NV.

 

The Khans are still around, although I killed Papa Khan. Another mod which would fit in well with the independent New Vegas mod is AWOP, as The Underground faction are present and I could see them being useful muscle aswell.

 

As for the Desert Rangers, people are always gonna debate how many there are and how loyal they are to the cause. In my opinon once the NCR has f*#@ed off, they'll drop their alliance and go back to their previous function, just as there dads, granddads, uncles, brothers and cousins have done, if they have any that is. However I think the Desert Rangers are fairly low in numbers, maybe lower in numbers than the Mojave BoS which would make an alliance with each other all the more logical.

 

The Boomers are actually my main interest though, they have serious firepower and an organised army at their disposal, yet same again lacking in numbers. All three could trade equipment and training and become the de facto U.S military of the region, in which case, no one is gonna mess with them!

[DoctorKaizeld]

BOOMERS RULE! also lets go to diccussing them. i havent discussed them in some time and always felt they werent implemented as much as i had hoped.

[Degby1]

BOOMERS RULE! also lets go to diccussing them. i havent discussed them in some time and always felt they werent implemented as much as i had hoped.

Go on then, give us your thoughts on how you would wanna expand on the Boomers? Imagine them teaming up with the BoS alone, the Boomers would get energy weapons n power armor and the BoS would start packing explosives!

[DoctorKaizeld]

well i felt like the whole simulator thing should have had more to it. i get they were for flying and this game doesn't have a good flying mechanic, but there should have been quests involving them. the base was very lacking in general. we have bombs crashing down on us and yet we see maybe two artillery pieces in the base. lets not forget how these people have been there for a while and not only have limited housing set up the air traffic controller tower is in ruins and to me that should have been fixed in general.

 

and for a tie in for this mod you want, maybe a few quests to ally themselves with the BoS.

[MarchUntoTorment]

Remember, the Brotherhood don't share tech for any reason, ever. I could see them allying with the Boomers (explosives and ammunition in exchange for acting as an elite infantry force for the Boomers), but they wouldn't give the Boomers power armour or energy weapons.

 

Although, personally, I love the Project Nevada thing with the Boomers having T-57c armour. That's awesome.

[devinpatterson]

i edited my previous comment because i felt that came across too poorly. im not 'butt hurt' its just you are not using fallout facts, your using real life facts. for example in the fallout universe the states exact shapes are not at all the same. this is because there is no way to actually see where you are until you find a land mark that is labeled on your map.

Incorrect, that's not lore, it's the game world. Lore does in fact have the same boarders for Nevada, look up the four states commonwealth.

next i didnt mean the entire Mojave i was refering to the territory around NV and felt that was implied.

you have to remember the Courier (or House) only owns the Mojave not Nevada its self.

Incorrect as well, the courier or House would own a tiny fraction of the Mojave, specifically NV and a small amount of the surrounding area, by far a minority of the Mojave (most of which is in CA).

 

the Rangers only joined the NCR and fought for the NCR because of the treaty they signed, that treaty was broken when the NCR lost Vegas (their only foot hold in Nevada.)

They signed the treaty and thus joined the NCR, because of Caesars Legion, the *same* Caesars Legion that continues to be active in Nevada after the hoover dam battle. There is nothing listed about a contingency if they loose NV.

 

Nor is NV their only foothold in Nevada, it's value is in the dam itself. For example new reno (from the wiki "main cities in New California are The Hub, Los Angeles Boneyard, NCR, Vault City, New Reno and San Francisco.").

 

they would never just up and leave the place they grew up in, fought and died for, and raised their families because their allies got screwed in a deal gone bad.

They have been fighting and dying in Baja and other locations in CA and the west coast for 10 years.

 

its not deserting its simply leaving because the NCR failed to hold their side of the deal.

Incorrect, there is no if/but/catch 22 should the NCR be unable to hold a military objective. They are members of the NCR army. From the wiki "The NCR Veteran Rangers are elite Rangers in the NCR Army." Some of the veteran rangers were former nevada rangers, some of the veteran rangers were former NCR rangers. No distinction is made between them, no one has a get out of service free card.

 

the Nevada Rangers are NOT actually NCR military, they're only allies who are training the NCRs rangers. the reason they are treated as NCR military personnel is because of publicity and formality.

Incorrect, as posted above (and from the wiki); "The NCR Veteran Rangers are elite Rangers in the NCR Army.". I'm not sure how much clearer I can make it.

 

the Rangers signed a deal with the NCR to join IF the NCR could defeat the Legion and hold Nevada. the NCR didnt so the deal was off the Rangers are no longer tied to the NCR.

No, there was no contigency that the NCR could not suffer a defeat. Hanlon "Years back, we met with the Desert Rangers at Mojave Outpost and agreed to help them against Caesar if they would join the NCR."

 

also not sure if you realized it, but you are not discussing this at all. dont know if you realized it, but you are stating everthing you say as 100% fact and no one else is right. that is why i am getting annoyed.

I am stating what is in the wiki, my primary source of info on fallout lore and my opinion. I even *explicitly* stated in my first post that;

 

When your dealing with a fictitious universe your going to have a lot of varied opinions. Most of the time we can mine lore to sort of function as a guidepost, but viewpoints are still going to differ.

And I certainly didn't exclude myself from that. Nor have I stated, in any way, shape or form that every I said was 100% correct, but you *have* stated that that;

 

okay i thought you knew FO lore... guess not

&

okay i thought there was going to be a proper discussion here where we actually knew what we were talking about... but you dont seem to

Rather ironic. Do you understand the hypocrisy of claiming I stated everything I said as a 100% true, when I didn't, then you claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about....especially in light of all the factual errors you'v made and that the wiki clearly repudiates.

 

Notice I'm listing my sources, I'm not saying, depend on my opinion, I'm showing info in the wiki. For instance when I said most of the ranger veterans were in Baja, I pointed you to the wiki...factual.

 

Another example that is one of opinion; You said;

i am not proposing that the Rangers wouldn't travel to California to say hi to the friends they made but i doubt they would just leave. speculative more than actual fact.

And I offered an opinion that it doesn't make a lot of sense to go back into the NCR to visit friends if your a deserter.

 

I don't have anything against you personally (heck I even offered to do a request for you, the riot armor coat), it's simply the lore, as it's written.

 

Now when you start claiming I don't know any lore even after I list it clearly in black and white and play a little bit of "I'm taking my ball and going home" as portrayed by this quote;

 

okay i thought there was going to be a proper discussion here where we actually knew what we were talking about... but you dont seem to, and the OP doesnt seem interested in my opinion or point of view. im out.

It's pretty clear that you are taking it personally, but I'm hoping seeing the info might inform you, instead of provoking your current behavior.

 

And I'm doing the same for the OP, because I bet s/he is interested in how it all plays into lore (as most fallout fans are). Don't get me wrong if the OP isn't asking opinions and is saying "this is what I'm doing", then no worries, it's his/her thread and his/hers to do with however s/he wishes.

[dangman4ever]

i edited my previous comment because i felt that came across too poorly. im not 'butt hurt' its just you are not using fallout facts, your using real life facts. for example in the fallout universe the states exact shapes are not at all the same. this is because there is no way to actually see where you are until you find a land mark that is labeled on your map.

 

next i didnt mean the entire Mojave i was refering to the territory around NV and felt that was implied.

 

the Rangers only joined the NCR and fought for the NCR because of the treaty they signed, that treaty was broken when the NCR lost Vegas (their only foot hold in Nevada.) they would never just up and leave the place they grew up in, fought and died for, and raised their families because their allies got screwed in a deal gone bad. (already stated this, but it is still valid) the Rangers would stay in force in Nevada. its not deserting its simply leaving because the NCR failed to hold their side of the deal.

 

when i refer to Rangers i am implying Nevada Rangers not NCR Rangers in general. not sure if you knew this but the NCR already had Rangers of their own prior to the deal. the Nevada Rangers just made them better.

 

the Nevada Rangers are NOT actually NCR military, they're only allies who are training the NCRs rangers. the reason they are treated as NCR military personnel is because of publicity and formality. the Rangers signed a deal with the NCR to join IF the NCR could defeat the Legion and hold Nevada. the NCR didnt so the deal was off the Rangers are no longer tied to the NCR.

 

also not sure if you realized it, but you are not discussing this at all. dont know if you realized it, but you are stating everthing you say as 100% fact and no one else is right. that is why i am getting annoyed.

Where's your proof that the Desert Rangers are not actual NCR military at time of the game?

The Monument plaque in game states:

 

"In the year 2271, the Desert Rangers of Nevada and rangers of the New California Republic met at this spot to sign the Ranger Unification Treaty. Under this treaty, the Desert Rangers agreed to be absorbed into the NCR in exchange for NCR's protection of Hoover Dam, New Vegas, and southern Nevada against the forces of Caesar's Legion."

Key word is "absorbed". If the Desert Rangers were absorbed, that means they would have been integrated directly into the NCR military. As such, they're considered actual NCR military. Do you have any proof showing that Desert Rangers were merely attached to the NCR rather than absorbed?

In addition, your logic for the Desert Ranger still doesn't make sense: In order for the NCR to lose, you would have to go with the Legion, House, or Independent ending. So if the Desert Rangers were to even desert the NCR, they would have to deal with either a more power Legion force than the one they faced in the past or a giant Robot army. On the Desert Ranger's side, ten years of combat would have lowered the original Desert Ranger population. The population would be further lowered during the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam where many Desert Rangers, now Veteran Rangers of the NCR military, would have been killed. Not to mention that the Desert Rangers themselves would be older in age and more than likely have a family of their own.

So logically, why would these Desert Rangers stick around and risk their lives to continue the fight with considerably less resources, less personnel, and now the extra dangers of their own families in the mix? Especially after they've just seen their larger and better supplied NCR brethren get completely pushed out of the Mojave? Not to mention that the area they live in is now significantly more dangerous than ten years ago? The vast majority of the Desert Rangers would have pulled out alongside the NCR for the safety of their families. The very Ranger Unification treaty shows that the Desert Rangers are a pragmatic and reasonable people. If they weren't, they wouldn't have signed the treaty in the first place.

Some Desert Rangers may end up doing exactly as you said. But it won't be the majority.

As for the last bit about getting annoyed, you're doing the same thing man.

[Degby1]

 

i edited my previous comment because i felt that came across too poorly. im not 'butt hurt' its just you are not using fallout facts, your using real life facts. for example in the fallout universe the states exact shapes are not at all the same. this is because there is no way to actually see where you are until you find a land mark that is labeled on your map.

 

next i didnt mean the entire Mojave i was refering to the territory around NV and felt that was implied.

 

the Rangers only joined the NCR and fought for the NCR because of the treaty they signed, that treaty was broken when the NCR lost Vegas (their only foot hold in Nevada.) they would never just up and leave the place they grew up in, fought and died for, and raised their families because their allies got screwed in a deal gone bad. (already stated this, but it is still valid) the Rangers would stay in force in Nevada. its not deserting its simply leaving because the NCR failed to hold their side of the deal.

 

when i refer to Rangers i am implying Nevada Rangers not NCR Rangers in general. not sure if you knew this but the NCR already had Rangers of their own prior to the deal. the Nevada Rangers just made them better.

 

the Nevada Rangers are NOT actually NCR military, they're only allies who are training the NCRs rangers. the reason they are treated as NCR military personnel is because of publicity and formality. the Rangers signed a deal with the NCR to join IF the NCR could defeat the Legion and hold Nevada. the NCR didnt so the deal was off the Rangers are no longer tied to the NCR.

 

also not sure if you realized it, but you are not discussing this at all. dont know if you realized it, but you are stating everthing you say as 100% fact and no one else is right. that is why i am getting annoyed.

Where's your proof that the Desert Rangers are not actual NCR military at time of the game?

The Monument plaque in game states:

 

"In the year 2271, the Desert Rangers of Nevada and rangers of the New California Republic met at this spot to sign the Ranger Unification Treaty. Under this treaty, the Desert Rangers agreed to be absorbed into the NCR in exchange for NCR's protection of Hoover Dam, New Vegas, and southern Nevada against the forces of Caesar's Legion."

Key word is "absorbed". If the Desert Rangers were absorbed, that means they would have been integrated directly into the NCR military. As such, they're considered actual NCR military. Do you have any proof showing that Desert Rangers were merely attached to the NCR rather than absorbed?

In addition, your logic for the Desert Ranger still doesn't make sense: In order for the NCR to lose, you would have to go with the Legion, House, or Independent ending. So if the Desert Rangers were to even desert the NCR, they would have to deal with either a more power Legion force than the one they faced in the past or a giant Robot army. On the Desert Ranger's side, ten years of combat would have lowered the original Desert Ranger population. The population would be further lowered during the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam where many Desert Rangers, now Veteran Rangers of the NCR military, would have been killed. Not to mention that the Desert Rangers themselves would be older in age and more than likely have a family of their own.

So logically, why would these Desert Rangers stick around and risk their lives to continue the fight with considerably less resources, less personnel, and now the extra dangers of their own families in the mix? Especially after they've just seen their larger and better supplied NCR brethren get completely pushed out of the Mojave? Not to mention that the area they live in is now significantly more dangerous than ten years ago? The vast majority of the Desert Rangers would have pulled out alongside the NCR for the safety of their families. The very Ranger Unification treaty shows that the Desert Rangers are a pragmatic and reasonable people. If they weren't, they wouldn't have signed the treaty in the first place.

Some Desert Rangers may end up doing exactly as you said. But it won't be the majority.

As for the last bit about getting annoyed, you're doing the same thing man.

 

You both make some good points here, no doubt that there would be some of the original Desert Rangers packing up their s#*! and leaving, but as for others, most likely older members who have a stronger emotional attachment to the Las Vegas area would ultimately stay. Also for this mod I was planning on having the Courier go looking for groups of and individual DR's, even as far as the Mojave Outpost, and recruit them into the new Nevada National Guard. Dependent on reputation, speech challenges etc you would be able to convince them to stay and that there is no beef between you and the Rangers.

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

Incorrect, that's not lore, it's the game world. Lore does in fact have the same boarders for Nevada, look up the four states commonwealth.

you are wrong friend it is lore. the maps they use are inaccurate they have no way of actually knowing their boarders aside from big land marks.

 

 

Incorrect as well, the courier or House would own a tiny fraction of the Mojave, specifically NV and a small amount of the surrounding area, by far a minority of the Mojave (most of which is in CA).

you said im incorrect then copied what i said... im confused.

 

 

They signed the treaty and thus joined the NCR, because of Caesars Legion, the *same* Caesars Legion that continues to be active in Nevada after the hoover dam battle. There is nothing listed about a contingency if they loose NV.

 

Nor is NV their only foothold in Nevada, it's value is in the dam itself. For example new reno (from the wiki "main cities in New California are The Hub, Los Angeles Boneyard, NCR, Vault City, New Reno and San Francisco.").

my bad i should have been more specific and said Mojave.

 

 

They have been fighting and dying in Baja and other locations in CA and the west coast for 10 years.

so? that doesn't mean they cared for those lands. i dont think you realize that 10 years doesnt beat several generations.

 

 

Incorrect, there is no if/but/catch 22 should the NCR be unable to hold a military objective. They are members of the NCR army. From the wiki "The NCR Veteran Rangers are elite Rangers in the NCR Army." Some of the veteran rangers were former nevada rangers, some of the veteran rangers were former NCR rangers. No distinction is made between them, no one has a get out of service free card.

we're talking about Desert Rangers, please stay on topic.

 

 

Rather ironic. Do you understand the hypocrisy of claiming I stated everything I said as a 100% true, when I didn't, then you claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about....especially in light of all the factual errors you'v made and that the wiki clearly repudiates.

 

Notice I'm listing my sources, I'm not saying, depend on my opinion, I'm showing info in the wiki. For instance when I said most of the ranger veterans were in Baja, I pointed you to the wiki...factual.

i'm using what i know of the game from my many hours of play, and the wiki... so i guess we have the same sources? not honestly sure niether of us have been clear on our info. you keep saying wiki when there are three of them. and i am using what makes sense for them to do, the wiki (http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Fallout:_New_Vegas) and what is in the game itself.

 

 

And I offered an opinion that it doesn't make a lot of sense to go back into the NCR to visit friends if your a deserter.

 

I don't have anything against you personally (heck I even offered to do a request for you, the riot armor coat), it's simply the lore, as it's written.

 

Now when you start claiming I don't know any lore even after I list it clearly in black and white and play a little bit of "I'm taking my ball and going home" as portrayed by this quote;

you know im sorry i was being a dick yesterday. i had a long day at work (i am a construction worker) it was over ninety degrees out... i should be more appropriate about this.

 

 

Where's your proof that the Desert Rangers are not actual NCR military at time of the game?

did you listen to everybody in game who talked about the treaty? they said the reasons why the treaty were signed and if the NCR loses than they broke the treaty and the Desert Rangers are free to go... im looking at this from a legal standing, that is how treaties work. heres my proof:

 

"In the year 2271, the Desert Rangers of Nevada and rangers of the New California Republic met at this spot to sign the Ranger Unification Treaty. Under this treaty, the Desert Rangers agreed to be absorbed into the NCR in exchange for NCR's protection of Hoover Dam, New Vegas, and southern Nevada against the forces of Caesar's Legion."

the NCR failed to keep their end of the deal.

 

 

Key word is "absorbed". If the Desert Rangers were absorbed, that means they would have been integrated directly into the NCR military. As such, they're considered actual NCR military. Do you have any proof showing that Desert Rangers were merely attached to the NCR rather than absorbed?

In addition, your logic for the Desert Ranger still doesn't make sense: In order for the NCR to lose, you would have to go with the Legion, House, or Independent ending. So if the Desert Rangers were to even desert the NCR, they would have to deal with either a more power Legion force than the one they faced in the past or a giant Robot army. On the Desert Ranger's side, ten years of combat would have lowered the original Desert Ranger population. The population would be further lowered during the 2nd Battle of Hoover Dam where many Desert Rangers, now Veteran Rangers of the NCR military, would have been killed. Not to mention that the Desert Rangers themselves would be older in age and more than likely have a family of their own.

So logically, why would these Desert Rangers stick around and risk their lives to continue the fight with considerably less resources, less personnel, and now the extra dangers of their own families in the mix? Especially after they've just seen their larger and better supplied NCR brethren get completely pushed out of the Mojave? Not to mention that the area they live in is now significantly more dangerous than ten years ago? The vast majority of the Desert Rangers would have pulled out alongside the NCR for the safety of their families. The very Ranger Unification treaty shows that the Desert Rangers are a pragmatic and reasonable people. If they weren't, they wouldn't have signed the treaty in the first place.

Some Desert Rangers may end up doing exactly as you said. But it won't be the majority.

still wouldn't be deserting. anyways we are talking about the Courier taking over, and odds are he'd be fine with them staying.

 

 

Also for this mod I was planning on having the Courier go looking for groups of and individual DR's, even as far as the Mojave Outpost, and recruit them into the new Nevada National Guard. Dependent on reputation, speech challenges etc you would be able to convince them to stay and that there is no beef between you and the Rangers.

we have to remember whos wanting this guys.