Boomers/BoS/Desert Rangers expanded

[devinpatterson]

People it's as simple as this, as soon as the NCR have been kicked out, the Courier will go on a recruitment mission to track down and hire/convince/emontially blackmail the REAL Desert Rangers into staying.

You can try that pitch but I don't think you'll get a whole lot of traction.

 

Desert rangers aren't mercernary by nature, they aren't fighting their war for the love of money. Hiring isn't going to be a huge appeal to them.

 

Convince them?

A certain group of DR's want to defect from the NCR but they also want to attack the Courier for f*cking their sh^t up, so you will need to tell them to pipe down with strength/guns/explosives/terryfing prescene skills and perks

Yeah I don't think telling a ranger to pipe down is gonna do it.

 

Attempting to emotionally blackmail a desert ranger (or ncr ranger) is liable to make them break down in laughter.

 

If you want a hook that seems reasonable (and fits lore) it has to hinge on why the desert rangers joined the NCR....Caesars Legion. You may have to deal additional complications (desertion, loyalty to the men and cause they'v served for 10 years, etc), but the Legion is the Crux of the matter.

 

P.S. just chiming in if you want the input (I'll shut up if your not looking for opinions). But since your not making this mod, and asking for help, you have to really sell it. One way to sell it, is to make a believable plot that is also lore friendly.

[Degby1]

 

People it's as simple as this, as soon as the NCR have been kicked out, the Courier will go on a recruitment mission to track down and hire/convince/emontially blackmail the REAL Desert Rangers into staying.

You can try that pitch but I don't think you'll get a whole lot of traction.

 

Desert rangers aren't mercernary by nature, they aren't fighting their war for the love of money. Hiring isn't going to be a huge appeal to them.

 

Convince them?

A certain group of DR's want to defect from the NCR but they also want to attack the Courier for f*cking their sh^t up, so you will need to tell them to pipe down with strength/guns/explosives/terryfing prescene skills and perks

Yeah I don't think telling a ranger to pipe down is gonna do it.

 

Attempting to emotionally blackmail a desert ranger (or ncr ranger) is liable to make them break down in laughter.

 

If you want a hook that seems reasonable (and fits lore) it has to hinge on why the desert rangers joined the NCR....Caesars Legion. You may have to deal additional complications (desertion, loyalty to the men and cause they'v served for 10 years, etc), but the Legion is the Crux of the matter.

 

P.S. just chiming in if you want the input (I'll shut up if your not looking for opinions). But since your not making this mod, and asking for help, you have to really sell it. One way to sell it, is to make a believable plot that is also lore friendly.

 

Yeah I hear u on all fronts but this is still feasible. The setting for this would be after the main story arc, in which case everyone from California to Arizona would have heard of u. The fact that you are "The Courier" and kicked 2 armies out of the Mojave and killed one of the most influential people of authority in his home, House, is bound to have perhaps more than aliittle traction with them.

 

As for them laughing at you for telling them to pipe down think on this - My player atleast (although I know not everyone let me emphasise that) is guilty of the following -

 

1. Kicked both Armies out

2. Killed Legate Lanius, Caesar and all his top commanders

3. Killed General Lee Oliver and let President Kimball getta headshot

4. Killed House, took over his casino and rebuilt it

5. Killed Benny

6. Killed Papa Khan and then negotiated a truce between to spiteful enemies

7. Negotiated a truce between BoS and NCR

8. Got into Nelis, didnt get merked and then convinced them to back the Rangers at the time of Hoover Dam

9. Nuked both NCR and Legion

10. Talked a madman out kiiling me and used his nukes instead (Ulysses)

 

I can go with the amount of people, creatures, robots I've kllled and the amount of money i made but i think i've established how dangerous the Courier is after the second battle of Hoover Dam.

 

Now you tell me what Desert Ranger did that, no matter how big his balls were, if someone who achieved all of that told him to pipe down and work for him, which would be beneficial to him aswell, no one would tell him f"ck off and laugh at him.

 

As for you chimming, please continue to do so, I need honest feedback instead of "yes man" comments so if something doesnt sound right to you then firstly thank you taking the time to read and retort on this and secondly if you have any suggestions on how to improve something that you would be willing to share on here then please do!

[MarchUntoTorment]

I'm going to take a middle ground here, and highlight a few key points from the discussion.

 

1) On an individual basis, the Courier could quite easily intimidate a Desert Ranger; the Courier is, after all, known throughout the Mojave to effectively be a one-man-army. However, trying to intimidate the whole organisation at once would be a great way to get assassinated.

 

2) I highly doubt that bribing the Desert Rangers into helping you would work. They're devoted, ideologically-driven and believe wholly in the dream of a better world. They don't fight for money.

 

2) The Desert Rangers loyalty will be split between their home (the Mojave) and the army they've served with for the last decade (the NCR). The best way to convince them would be to prove to them that the NCR no longer needs them to defend it, but their home does.

 

4) The Desert Rangers are not the entirety of the NCR Rangers. I'd say they'd comprise maybe 20% of the Veterans, and that'd be it. You'd probably be looking at a few dozen, not more than fifty Rangers. To convince those, I'd go looking for the Rangers who led the group before they joined the NCR.

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

And while your at it, please show us the contingency clause in the treaty that you keep claiming. Don't see anything about it being contingent on victory or defeat. And that's *if* they wanted to leave. It's pretty obvious that the best chance to defeat the legion lies with the NCR.

show me the treaty than i will. also that plaque is not the treaty.

[devinpatterson]

As for them laughing at you for telling them to pipe down think on this - My player atleast (although I know not everyone let me emphasise that) is guilty of the following -

 

1. Kicked both Armies out

2. Killed Legate Lanius, Caesar and all his top commanders

3. Killed General Lee Oliver and let President Kimball getta headshot

4. Killed House, took over his casino and rebuilt it

5. Killed Benny

6. Killed Papa Khan and then negotiated a truce between to spiteful enemies

7. Negotiated a truce between BoS and NCR

8. Got into Nelis, didnt get merked and then convinced them to back the Rangers at the time of Hoover Dam

9. Nuked both NCR and Legion

10. Talked a madman out kiiling me and used his nukes instead (Ulysses)

 

I can go with the amount of people, creatures, robots I've kllled and the amount of money i made but i think i've established how dangerous the Courier is after the second battle of Hoover Dam.

 

Now you tell me what Desert Ranger did that, no matter how big his balls were, if someone who achieved all of that told him to pipe down and work for him, which would be beneficial to him aswell, no one would tell him f"ck off and laugh at him.

No, not laughing, never stated that in regard to intimidation. When I said "telling them to pipe down wasn't going to do it", I meant your not going to be able to intimidate them into serving (and certainly not with any loyalty, maybe as a chance to assassinate you). These are guys and gals that that live with death every day. They know they'r going to die and they know they'r probably going to die violently. Death doesn't hold the same fear for them as it does for others, they'r already willing to give their lives in pursuit of defeating an enemy (the legion).

 

Think of Samurai during the most bloody periods of Japan's history. They've already accepted their death, they lived with it each day......it's just become a fact for them.

 

I think you really need to address the issue that made them join the NCR. If you want them to serve with you, the focus should be on dealing with the legion. It's pivotal that you target their motivations if you want their loyalty.

 

Secondarily, part of the reason you want them, is because of who they are mentally. That mental toughness, service/protection of others, bravery etc, are all going to work against you when your trying to intimidate them into serving you. You want to leverage those characteristics, not try to destroy them in hopes of breaking their spirits. One way to do that (leverage those qualities) is being someone that the rangers *want* to serve. Furthering their interests in defeating teh legion, and upholding their ideals by your actions.

 

In your personal game, it's probably a bit late to be someone they idolize (especially after nuking the NCR) so that complicates things, but you don't want to base a large mod on just your personal game anyway (hopefully it would have broad appeal to many of our community peeps).

 

But you can still address their main motivation, defeating and destroying the legion. You can draw former desert rangers (and others) away from the NCR if you can show victories against the legion and the intention to destroy them. The more battles you rack up, the further you tip the balance, the more peeps will join your cause (especially if the NCR is doing poorly). Once again that's a little harder in your personal game since you don't have the securitron army.

 

But the jist of this long winded post is; To make this happen in a lore friendly way, you have to be someone the rangers *want* to server, either by furthering their interests or their ideals.

 

Because, lets face it, this is a wacky fallout world and a player/modder can write anything they want. You could say the think tanks mentally dominated the former desert rangers with a psi-beam, that the courier has an advanced and permanant mesmetron etc. All kinds of explanations no matter how far fetched they are. But if you want it to really stick, and a modder (or modders) to do something more than just throwing a handful of npc rangers at your side via the geck, you'll want the plot line to make sense in terms of the game world (lore) and who the rangers truly are. Something like that is your best shot.

[devinpatterson]

show me the treaty than i will. also that plaque is not the treaty.

And yet your still happy to claim it as your central argument without any evidence at all.....

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

And yet your still happy to claim it as your central argument without any evidence at all.....

not like you have a better argument on the topic. now drop it the OP has stated what he wants, this isnt a discussion thread this is a request thread. if the OP says what he wants we have t respect that. either way there is no way we can convince the other is right at this point. so lets move on and discuss how to make the OPs request a possibility.

[Degby1]

@ Devinpatterson - Ur tight in that intimdation may not work. I had the idea in my head and thought it would provide some humurous dialogue via the Terryfing Prescence perks. Still though above all I want this to be lore friendly, however I've already killed the Legion so unless I convince them that the Legion are gonna try it again OR that a new more dangerous faction is on its way OR play on feelings of nostalgia (which I feel would be most effective)

 

In terms of my playthrough I went for the most Independent playthrough possible. This mod is mainly aimed at people who went Independent or at least kicked out both NCR and Legion. I use the CAGE mod and it seems weird still havin Legion and NCR troops, although soldiers dont pull out of war zones over night. I know the DR's arent solely into monitary gain, however a stable wage for their services and their own HQ plus the welfare of their families taken into account with the added bonus of defending the same land they and their ancestors have since the Great War, I think the pull would be too strong for them up and leave. The NCR Rangers, people like Jackson etc would leave however!

 

As for the Securitrons, they wouldnt be a massive deciding factor other than a few members would be very sceptical in working alongside them, especially and more so the BoS. The quest would be made easier if they aint around, but if an alternative can be thought of then im all ears.

 

@Qwertyzeldar - Its ok to debate on this, i'm not a forum nazi so feel free to say ur piece. If something seems unclear or unlikely to work or to fit the lore then I want ppl to say so, but remember this, the Desert Rangers are only one third of this new task force, my main focus wanted to be on the Boomers and how they would progress, given that after events in the Mojave they begin to trade with people. If there ever was a new threat, which I would want to implement, then the Boomers, BoS, DR and Great Khans would once again reunite into a more permanent coallition.

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

@Qwertyzeldar - Its ok to debate on this, i'm not a forum nazi so feel free to say ur piece. If something seems unclear or unlikely to work or to fit the lore then I want ppl to say so, but remember this, the Desert Rangers are only one third of this new task force, my main focus wanted to be on the Boomers and how they would progress, given that after events in the Mojave they begin to trade with people. If there ever was a new threat, which I would want to implement, then the Boomers, BoS, DR and Great Khans would once again reunite into a more permanent coallition

thank you for clarifying. well since we are getting no where on debating the DR, lets move on to the other groups if you guys dont mind.

[Degby1]

 

 

@Qwertyzeldar - Its ok to debate on this, i'm not a forum nazi so feel free to say ur piece. If something seems unclear or unlikely to work or to fit the lore then I want ppl to say so, but remember this, the Desert Rangers are only one third of this new task force, my main focus wanted to be on the Boomers and how they would progress, given that after events in the Mojave they begin to trade with people. If there ever was a new threat, which I would want to implement, then the Boomers, BoS, DR and Great Khans would once again reunite into a more permanent coallition

thank you for clarifying. well since we are getting no where on debating the DR, lets move on to the other groups if you guys dont mind.

 

Yeah lets, now then the Boomers - how would YOU expand on them?

 

Me personally I would have them fortfy Nellis even further and refubish a few of those disused buildings. Maybe even a side mission where you go to Area 2 to loot the armory there even further. I think being able to train them and BoS in better combat techniques would be a good idea.