Join Empire or Stormcloaks? My Thoughts

[Caerulean]

Meh. Stentor may seem in command but the other court members do not really falter during their conversations. And if she is indeed weakened by the failure of Potema's reawakening, then Stentor poses a much lesser threat. And perhaps she would become a bit less credible since she 'supposedly' did not see the threat in Wolfskull Cave. (Plus, if Daedric Quests hold any truth, the defeat of Malkoran in Kilkreath Temple will likely lead to a return of Meridia's influence in Haafingar/Skyrim, which would mean less vampirism and necromancy. Though if Stentor/Potema's cult and Malkoran knew one another, it wouldn't be surprising. *It could be really fun if the game allowed the player join the various cults in Skyrim, but the game only has the player rid Skyrim of them.)

 

I personally don't put much value to cut content, even if they are plausible (and fun). Most of them seem to be mere ideas of complicating/dramatizing things, and many people interpret them with their preferences and biases, more so than the uncut content. Most people wouldn't trust Erikur on the Jarl's throne, Melaran can be bought, Falk and Bryling can function under both Imperial and Stormcloak leadership, and Elisif (although generally powerless) remains true to Solitude and will still likely have the loyalty/support of many of her people.

 

Do not overestimate the Jarls (:3); there are reasons why court members exist. Many decisions could have been different if there were no other court members. Perhaps Laila wouldn't be so clueless to Maven's corruption if Anurial was true to her and Riften's well-being.

[monganfinn]

My comparison between the courts wasn´t meant to mean that the jarls handle all the matters of their hold by themselves, but rather that these holds still run smoothly even without involving thanes that much as the court of Solitudes does. Anuriel for example is a steward, so her inlfuence does not contradict my opinion that Bryling and Erikur pretty much take over the slack that Elisif doesn´t do on her own. If there´s a strong jarl there is little reason for thanes, even when the player is given the title the jarls always say it is more of a honorary position and it is like that everywhere but in Solitude.

 

What I meant to argue is that the court of Solitude is not running exceptionally well compared to others, they just have the richest city and thus look good compared to those courtmembers of other cities.

 

Riften and Markarth are exceptional cases where the jarl is not really all that much in control of politics.

 

Stentor going to sleep after the Potema quest is just a bug.

 

You can join Boethia´s cult (then you kill them off), the Namira cultists remain (though I don´t know if they ever show up at the shrine again?), by becoming a vamp you theoretically join a cult of Molag Bal or if you join the Companions you would be part of a cult of Hircine and then there are the Nightingales of Nocturnal. But yeah, it would be nice if they would give you more than just an entry-quest. The Companions however do have the werewolf totems to worship and I always throw Sinding into the Hircine-Cult-Companion mix in my headcanon.

[Padre86]

I recently watched a video on Stentor and I've had my suspicions beforehand.

 

 

 

Just how could a seemingly very efficient court wizard's scrying fail at what turned out to be a much bigger threat to Solitude.

 

I can't confirm the near-comatose sleeping habits though yes, I've noticed she sleeps A LOT, but doesn't she sleep during the day like Alva? :3 I barely ever visit 'residences' anymore ever since I started (casually) roleplaying.

 

Her being in total control of Solitude's court, though not entirely impossible, is rather implausible to me. If she couldn't have swayed Torygg from courting/marrying Elisif (whom she disrespects greatly) or accepting Ulfric's challenge (if he could've refused), then I doubt she is that powerful, even if she is that skilled in Illusion magic.

 

Most NPCs are aware of Stentor's antagonism and just try to stay on her good/neutral side. :3

 

 

 

Despite all these, I still find Solitude's court (Elisif's kind innocence + Falk's professionalism + Bryling's mindfulness + Erikur's business-mindedness + Sybille's cunning) well-balanced. *shrug* Perhaps the frequent discussions in this court have made me believe that it's (one of) the most functional/healthiest court in Skyrim. Balgruuf + Irileth + Proventus + Hrongar (Whiterun) seems well-balanced too.

Solitude isn't really a "healthy" court if you think about it, rather it's a court that is simply trying to survive and maintain relevance. Thalmor gaining influence over Skyrim's nobility through bribery and intimidation (think about where their embassy is, it's basically right on Solitude's doorstep for a very good reason), Imperials basically calling all the big shots and making most of the important decisions relating to defense and national policy, dragons, bandits, thalmor hit squads and Falmer running rampant throughout the province....Solitude's so-called leadership hasn't assumed much of an active role in most of these pressing issues, or if they have it's minor and mostly inconsequential.

 

They are a puppet government, and maybe there are a few good members of that court, but they're focused on keeping their heads above water...they're not at all focused on building a better, unified Skyrim. As a Nord, I'd take a somewhat flawed but capable and ambitious leader over a soft-spoken, inexperienced and incompetent one any day of the week. Elisif is the former king's wife.....that doesn't make her a leader just like a first lady isn't considered a leader simply because she is married to the president. Skyrim, regardless of which allegiance it goes with, needs a strong leader and Elisif isn't it.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Padre86

[fraquar]

Solitude government is just a reflection of the Imperial government - weak and essentially powerless. They let the Thalmor run rampant in their lands with impunity. It's one thing to have a Thalmor embassy. It's totally another to give them a base of operations (Northwatch Keep) where they knowingly torture Skyrim citizens (cough.... prisoners) and everyone turns a blind eye to it.

[Moredhel]

That was a beautiful read, DariusGarran :D

[Olligarchy]

I sided with the Stormcloaks.

 

Not only did I find them to be at least a tad more sympathetic than the Imperials, I have to admit the political realist in me found them to be a better horse to bet on in the long term. The Mede Empire is not going to survive without propping up regardless of what you do in Skyrim, and has shown no proof of being able to challenge the Thalmor. The men on the ground might have the willingness, but those are the very same men that got utterly whipped in the last war, and with the politics of the Empire such a mess it's unlikely to matter regardless. The political elites of Cyrodil have shown they're quite willing to throw their provinces under the bus and are not worthy of their loyalty.

 

So yeah... Age of Oppression is just about done!

[TheDungeonDweller]

Both of them are racially motivated it seems, to which I can't join either. Tullius seems to have a problem with Nords and their culture. Ulfric doesn't care for non Nords. Can't support either. UNFORTUNATELY, Diplomatic Immunity and Season Unending sort of force you to pick sides anyway.

[LoneWolfEburg]

I like it when the Nord Legion officer in Falkreath, Legate Skulnar, says the Legion offiers' mildly chauvinist anti-Nord "Nord kings - excuse me, 'Jarls'..." lines. At least, the Empire's assortment of regional officers is multi-racial.

[khyloskye]

Both of them are racially motivated it seems, to which I can't join either. Tullius seems to have a problem with Nords and their culture. Ulfric doesn't care for non Nords. Can't support either. UNFORTUNATELY, Diplomatic Immunity and Season Unending sort of force you to pick sides anyway.

 

TES is a racially distinct and divided setting, and I'm not sure it's really considered "wrong" in TES to dislike or even hate other races. The Empire is a melting pot because by its very nature it has to be. And the Nords (like the Altmer) are xenophobic because that's kind of how most of them just are...they were written to be that way.

 

But I really don't think our own Earthly experience with racism has anything to do with some completely fictional fantasy setting like TES. For one thing, RL racism is a misnomer...we are all the same race. In TES, they are actually different races (vast DNA differences if you will) and even those are divided into subgroups with distinctly different physical abilities (humans: Nord, Redguard, Imperial, Breton). A Nord being "racist" to a Breton would be the real-life equivalent of a human being racist to a chimpanzee. And a Nord being "racist" to an Argonian would be the real-life equivalent of a human being racist to a dolphin.

 

Games like TES (and the vast majority of all fantasy rpgs for that matter) rely on distinct species, or "races", for both visual variety as well as the more important aspect of giving the player much needed customization and uniqueness when engaging the narrative. Plus, it's just cool to get to RP things that look elvish, dwarvish, feline, etc.

 

I mean, if you can't support a certain culture in a fantasy RPG setting because there's evidence of even minor discrimination to another "race", then you might think about playing a different game. Although you'd be hard put to find one that is 100% non-discriminatory/racist.

 

It's a game. It's not meant to mirror real life.

Edited July 24, 2017 by khyloskye

[LoneWolfEburg]

 

A Nord being "racist" to a Breton would be the real-life equivalent of a human being racist to a chimpanzee.

 

Both Nords and Bretons are sentient and sapient on the same basic level, so it's not an accurate comparison. I think you could compare a Nord being a racist to a Breton to a human being racist to a sentient alien*, which is another form of Fantastic Racism in fiction. In many sci-fi, however, enmity towards sentient aliens is considered to be bad, unless these aliens have clearly hostile or warlike intentions.

 

Fiction derives its impact from both parallels and differences from the real world, after all.

 

Not that Skyrim is that xenophobic, anyway. I agree that Stormcloak bigotry is quite minor and vague, in order to make them more bigoted you have to resort to mods or headcanon.

 

*albeit to an alien with whom humans can have kids, and who basically look like humans, anyway.

 

Now that I mention it, the large difference between human and elf lifespans in TES could be a reason for more than superficial difference between races, but it's very much downplayed in TES writing.

Edited July 25, 2017 by LoneWolfEburg