fraquar Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Here's a question, have the Thalmor been in Skryim for the last 25 years since the Markarth incident pulling people out of their homes, torturing and murdering them in their own homeland and the Empire doing nothing but standing back and being complicit accomplices? It sure seems that way. Ulfric may not be the best moral person to lead a rebellion, but this Empire is rotten to the very core. It needs to be rebelled against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Here's a question, have the Thalmor been in Skryim for the last 25 years since the Markarth incident pulling people out of their homes, torturing and murdering them in their own homeland and the Empire doing nothing but standing back and being complicit accomplices? It sure seems that way. There's nothing to indicate that. In fact, the Thalmor sympathisers (mostly money-minded businessmen) treat the Dominion as relatively new trading partners, implying they haven't been there long. Then you have the fact that the Talos ban wasn't enforced until recently, with Hadvir making it quite clear that he grew up without a problem of it. He's not that old, 30ish tops, which would indicate the witch hunts are relatively new. Combine those facts with the relatively minor Thalmor presence (a few diplomats, and a few units operating out of the Embassy, no regional bases, no city garrisons) and it paints a clear picture that the Inquisition is recent. More than likely, it's only been since Ulfric 'officially' started his rebellion, giving the Thalmor leverage to claim that the Empire has lost control of the situation. Ulfric may not be the best moral person to lead a rebellion, but this Empire is rotten to the very core. It needs to be rebelled against. A rotten core (especially when dealing with politics) is still vastly more favourable to no core at all. Without Ulfric, the Stormcloaks have no unity. They are Caesar's Legion from New Vegas. Without their leader, they'll fall apart, because their entire driving unity is based on the charisma and vision of one man. Edited October 2, 2015 by Lachdonin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) So what we have, Ulfric or not is a State (Skyrim) of the Empire that refuses to abide by the decisions of the Empire (Treaty which abolishes Talos worship) - so why is Ulfric being persecuted if there has been open Talos worship - in defiance of the treaty since it's inception? If the Empire signed the treaty to GIVE AWAY Talos worship, they should have had the balls to enforce it themselves - not leave conditions that suggest it's perfectly fine to ignore the treaty - just so long as you are indiscrete about it? Edited October 2, 2015 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Seriously here, the HUMONGOUS Talos statue sitting right in the middle of Whiterun center, the Thalmor haven't found that for 25 years? Good god, trying to rationalize this whole thing as being Ulfric;s fault is hilarious. Seems he's just the only one with the balls to confront the hypocrisy of the whole thing. So wait, am I supposed to assume that Balgruuf has supreme power, that he can tell not only the Imperial troops but also the Thalmor that they aren't allowed in his city? Lol. Who is really running this Empire anyway? Edited October 2, 2015 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 And now i remember why i've avoided this thread. If you want to ignore the evidence we have in favour of your own little fantasy, where Ulfric is a saint and is the only man heroically standing against the oppression of an empire that's a puppet to a genocidal cult, go for it. No amount of evidence, logic or outright statements are going to dissuade you. You can't properly distinguish between the Thalmor and the Dominion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekollx Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So what we have, Ulfric or not is a State (Skyrim) of the Empire that refuses to abide by the decisions of the Empire (Treaty which abolishes Talos worship) - so why is Ulfric being persecuted if there has been open Talos worship - in defiance of the treaty since it's inception? If the Empire signed the treaty to GIVE AWAY Talos worship, they should have had the balls to enforce it themselves - not leave conditions that suggest it's perfectly fine to ignore the treaty - just so long as you are indiscrete about it? there's also one on the Throat of the World. Rember Talos is a Local Hero first and a god second, in fact Talos is only the second of only 2 divines with a actual form representation the only other humanoid statue that is WELL KNOWN is Azura. The Thalmor don't seem to have a problem if there are status to Talos the man, a local war hero but thos little T shaped shrines that people Pray at, that's what gets their goat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 No, serious question. Apparently, we are to assume that for 25 years the Thalmor were dormant, weren't hunting down Skyrim citizens and that the ONLY thing that triggered that was an action that wouldn't trigger that anyway - Ulfric killing the High King. What is it about that incident that has the Thalmor in full anti-Talos patrol mode, the Empire willingly transferring Skyrim citizens to Thalmor control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekollx Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 No, serious question. Apparently, we are to assume that for 25 years the Thalmor were dormant, weren't hunting down Skyrim citizens and that the ONLY thing that triggered that was an action that wouldn't trigger that anyway - Ulfric killing the High King. What is it about that incident that has the Thalmor in full anti-Talos patrol mode, the Empire willingly transferring Skyrim citizens to Thalmor control?Ulfirc didnt just Kill the High King he started a Rebellion, it pit Hold against hold forcing them to choose sides, i can easily see the Empire aquiestion more freedome to the dominion to get boots on the ground (that they can also coviently place all the heat on) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Nobody says Ulfric is a Saint, he's anything but. What he isn't however is 100% of the problem in Skyrim - anything but. Ulfric hasn't given the Thalmor carte-blanche to do whatever they please in Skyrim. That is an Imperial problem, not an Ulfric problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) What in the hell does hold against hold have to do with Thalmor patrols on Skyrim (Imperial) soil kidnapping, torturing and murdering IMPERIAL CITIZENS? Ulfric is responsible for starting a Civil War, he's not responsible for starting Religious persecution. That is started by the Thalmor, and is being backed by the Empire. FFS, the Thalmor are patrolling IMPERIAL TERRITORY in Skyrim and dragging people out of their homes. If I had a nickel for every Thalmor patrol in Markarth area I'd be rich. Edited October 2, 2015 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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