kradus Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Hammerfell had the willpower, Mede and the rest of his Empire did not. Had Mede and his Empire demonstrated the same willpower the Empire would have been capable of holding onto all of its remaining provinces. It wasn't a matter of willpower but of resources. Hammerfell had the people to fight on, Cyrodiil on the other hand was ruined and the empire was out of resources to carry on a campaign. Meaning, without the white gold concordat there would have been nothing to keep the Thalmor from moving their remaining armies to Cyrodiil and finishing the job. All of that was a consequence of the war, not the 'empire's inherent weakness'.That argument is completely irrelevant. Edited October 4, 2014 by kradus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilfre16 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 One fanfiction I read had the Dragonborn ask Tullius why he didn't step in to save her from execution. His reason was he didn't want to untermine the captain's authority, which is quite a believeable reason.can you link it? sounds like a good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 You know, I really like stories, like this that show the flaws of humanity, rather than stories that put humans on a pedestal. In Warriors Orochi, Orochi said that "humanity will not surrender so easily". In this game, they totally did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kradus Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) You know, I really like stories, like this that show the flaws of humanity, rather than stories that put humans on a pedestal. In Warriors Orochi, Orochi said that "humanity will not surrender so easily". In this game, they totally did. You're talking about Ulfric's surrender, right? You missed an entire war with steep losses on all levels. And it wasn't surrender either, otherwise the Thalmor would be in government, and the legions wouldn't be gathering at the border. Come on people, there have been far too many discussions of the sort for this selective amnesia thing. Edited October 4, 2014 by kradus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmyhome Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 One fanfiction I read had the Dragonborn ask Tullius why he didn't step in to save her from execution. His reason was he didn't want to untermine the captain's authority, which is quite a believeable reason.can you link it? sounds like a good read. Indeed, it was a good read. Was kinda strange it didn't get more attention. Go here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 You know, I really like stories, like this that show the flaws of humanity, rather than stories that put humans on a pedestal. In Warriors Orochi, Orochi said that "humanity will not surrender so easily". In this game, they totally did. You're talking about Ulfric's surrender, right? You missed an entire war with steep losses on all levels. And it wasn't surrender either, otherwise the Thalmor would be in government, and the legions wouldn't be gathering at the border. Come on people, there have been far too many discussions of the sort for this selective amnesia thing. Given that several Empire supporters still seem to think that Ulfric is an agent of the Thalmor, that Ulfric is trying to drive all non-humans out of Skyrim, that Ulfric is trying to drive all non-Nords out of Skyrim (oxymoron by the way), and Ulfric is Hitler, I just wanted to see how Empire supporters would feel about having those tables turned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Given that several Empire supporters still seem to think that Ulfric is an agent of the Thalmor,He is a stated asset of the Dominion, though 'uncooperative'. That means either he has done work for them in the past, or he is sufficiently manipulatable to be considered usable. , that Ulfric is trying to drive all non-humans out of Skyrim, that Ulfric is trying to drive all non-Nords out of Skyrim (oxymoron by the way), and Ulfric is Hitler,Yes, well, there are oversimplifications on both sides. It seems that no matter how many times it's brought up, some people just ignore the fact that the Thalmor do not rule the Empire, or that using a Thu'um in a duel is sacrilege. The biased, uninformed and new are always going to force repetition in these kinds of discussions, it's just the nature of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kradus Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Given that several Empire supporters still seem to think that Ulfric is an agent of the Thalmor, that Ulfric is trying to drive all non-humans out of Skyrim, that Ulfric is trying to drive all non-Nords out of Skyrim (oxymoron by the way), and Ulfric is Hitler, I just wanted to see how Empire supporters would feel about having those tables turned. It's annoying because you see many more people making such claims. Just look how many times people bring up the victorious Hammerfell argument for example. These things you just mentioned are at least based on in-game information, even if it is a strech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Well, Hammerfell "won" in the same way that Vietnam "won" the Vietnam War or the colonies "won" the American Revolution. The other side is still alive and kicking, just not alive and kicking there. No matter what I consider the Hitler comparison asinine, pretty sure Hitler didn't allow the bulk of the shops in Berlin to be owned by Jews. Also, Ulfric has a Czech accent, not a German one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kradus Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Well, Hammerfell "won" in the same way that Vietnam "won" the Vietnam War or the colonies "won" the American Revolution. The other side is still alive and kicking, just not alive and kicking there. No matter what I consider the Hitler comparison asinine, pretty sure Hitler didn't allow the bulk of the shops in Berlin to be owned by Jews. Also, Ulfric has a Czech accent, not a German one. The unfair comparison to Hitler comes from the overall nationalistic and sometimes extreme views of his supporters. What I meant about Hammerfell is that most stormcloak supporters still use the fact that the redguards strongarmed the Dominion into leaving as proof that the empire could have won the war in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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